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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by MicroWave@lemm.ee to c/world@lemmy.world

Summary

Donald Trump stated that U.S. aid to Ukraine should be compensated with $500 billion worth of its mineral resources, including rare earth elements.

He claimed Ukraine had "essentially agreed" to this arrangement. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has hinted at allowing U.S. access to these resources to maintain support.

The idea aligns with Ukraine’s "victory plan" for post-war recovery.

Trump's comments drew criticism, with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz condemning his approach as "very egotistic, very self-centered."

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[-] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 155 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Zelensky should agree: he can always renege after the war, claiming he did what he had to do to stay independent like the Finns did after WW2 to justify inviting the Nazis in, and pointing to Trump himself as the quintessential untrustworthy ruler who readily goes back on his word.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 87 points 1 month ago

Also what Russia did to Ukraine after Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for a pledge to never invade.

[-] ShadowRam@fedia.io 52 points 1 month ago

Zelensky should. Trump makes trade deals and then renege's on them all the time.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 month ago
[-] nilaus@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

The art of the deal

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[-] Skua@kbin.earth 67 points 1 month ago

This is, for a sense of scale, more than five times the total value of everything the US has sent to Ukraine since February 2022

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Well, there also is a big amount of rebuilding to be done and no matter who would be in the US government, there would be a strong push for the rebuilding to end in factories, apartments and farms to be owned by US investors. Also the US has a history of combining "security" with resource access.

In this regards Ukraine is getting fucked by receiving less aid than is needed to push back, but just enough to cause maximal attrition to Russia. And using the vast destruction caused by a prolonged war, was likely part of the strategy to profit off this war, both for Russia expecting victory and the US/Western Allies expecting Russia to eventually succumb to the attrition.

Now problem is that Russia kept escalating, instead of limiting their losses.

[-] Mog_fanatic@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago

The entire gdp of the country is under $200B. Lol he's asking for resources worth over 2.5X the value of the entire country 🤡

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[-] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 62 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

America shows its colours.

It was never freedom, it was money and power all along.

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 40 points 1 month ago

Always has been. Most of the shit they got up to after WW2 violated the human rights of half the planet, was anti-democratic, and imperialistic.

[-] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 10 points 1 month ago

American imperialism mostly halted under Clinton and Obama. The cold war was over and they weren't jingoistic like Bush or Trump.

[-] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Even Bush jr wasn't as much imperial as he was militaristic. Iraq and Afghanistan would both have arguably benefited from a time as an American protectorate like Germany or Japan, but W handed over "sovereignty" while the wars were still ongoing.

Trump isn't coherent enough to have an understandable philosophy

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 6 points 1 month ago

Iraq and Afghanistan are nothing like Germany or Japan and if you cannot create a stable government after 20 years of occupation, then there is no indication that more occupation would have done any better.

Frankly the notion that countries being invaded and have masses of their population slaughtered is "for their own benefit" is fascist talk.

[-] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

You're right, the behavior of how Iraq and Afghanistan were handled was entirely different from either Germany or Japan after WW2.

My assertion is that the USA did too much "occupation" and not enough "governance". Both Iraq and Afghanistan essentially had anti-government resistance movements forced into pseudo-national rule without any time to develop local governance.

Once the states were broken W wanted to get out, essentially since he feared accusations of imperialism. Which kept a good twenty year plan from being implemented, and instead led to a twenty year quagmire with one of the two essentially being a failed state.

(Man, that's a lot of essentially's)

I don't mean to defend either invasion as either good for the people or necessarily for American security. I just want to point out that W's position was "go and break things then go home" which is about as imperial as a viking raid.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Trump isn't coherent enough to have an understandable philosophy

Are you kidding? Trump is incredibly consistent: he simply does exactly what he thinks would most benefit him, personally, and fuck everybody else. No more, no less.

It's only not an "understandable philosophy" in the sense that it's so vile and shamelessly greedy that philosophers are too embarrassed to formalize it (and Ayn Rand doesn't count).

[-] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

"I just do what I want" isn't a philosophy, because it doesn't give guidance as to what someone else should do . It's just childishness.

Even Randism / Objectivism stretches selfishness into "rich people should do what they want". Trump doesn't even get that far

I'll grant that the orange felon is consistently selfish, though.

[-] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

Obama escalated Iraq and attacked Syria...

[-] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago

That's every country in the world.

[-] Damage@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 month ago

Pretty much. But America doubly so

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[-] banghida@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago

At least they are open about it this time around.

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[-] troed@fedia.io 48 points 1 month ago

Isn't this Zelenskyy's original plan that he pitched even before Trump got elected then?

The fourth point of the peace plan is economic: Zelenskyy calls on allied countries to implement “joint investment” plans to exploit Ukraine’s natural resources: “Ukraine has natural resources and critical metals worth trillions of dollars,” he notes. “These include uranium, titanium, lithium, graphite, and other strategic resources, which will either strengthen Russia or Ukraine and the democratic world.”

https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/zelenskyys-victory-plan-ukraine-makes-sense-it-has-little-chance-being-implemented

[-] towerful@programming.dev 40 points 1 month ago

This is how trump operates.
Postures, bullies, makes loads of noise in order to get what someone else has already agreed to.
Then, cause he was so noisy about it, he gets all the press coverage, and the neo-nazis chock it up as another win

[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Trump would walk into a coffee shop and threaten to buy out the place and fire everybody if they didn't sell him a cup at the cost they're charging. Then he'd claim victory and boast of his negotiation skills.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

And a bunch of idiots would believe it.

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[-] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 42 points 1 month ago

This is a Red alert. What he actually said, outside of the headline.

  • They might give us the minerals, they may not
  • Ukraine may be Russian in the future, it may not
  • either way, we (USA) have all this money in the country, and we're getting it back
[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 month ago

we’re getting it back

Only an absolute ass would consider that a loan.

[-] Olap@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

Only an idiot would think that Ukraine would actually have half a trillion dollars worth, and that they'd give it all to the USA even if USA blackmail them here. Zelensky will say lots right now to persuade the orange one. But he also won't be in power after the war to see it through, very few leaders are retained after any way.

Ukrainian neutrality was effectively guaranteed by America, UK, and Russia when they gave up their nukes. And there is also an economic clause to this agreement

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

[-] No_Eponym@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 weeks ago

Good thing everybody's respecting laws and treaties these days!

[-] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

good thing the country has tens of millions of absolute asses

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[-] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 36 points 1 month ago

extortion is called "demands" if you are powerful enough

[-] Philharmonic3@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago

What a cunt

[-] Mihies@programming.dev 23 points 1 month ago

Blackmailer in chief.

[-] EmpireInDecay@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 month ago

The entire war has always been about their resources

[-] kozy138@lemm.ee 14 points 1 month ago

~~The entire~~ war has always been about their resources

FTFY

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[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 20 points 4 weeks ago

This is what the mafia does. Racketeering in exchange for protection... from itself (=in this case, Russia)

[-] earphone843@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 weeks ago

Trump has larped as a mobster for most of his life.

[-] Red_October@lemmy.world 20 points 4 weeks ago

He never intended to support Ukraine. Never. This is just some bullshit to act like he's "Justified" in cutting support. Just wait until he finds an excuse to give it to Russia instead.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago
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[-] Docus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

I wish the EU was in a position to make a better offer.

[-] hsdkfr734r@feddit.nl 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It could deliver more military support. But the political system, which I'd like to keep btw, doesn't allow a switch to war economy.

People like their social security, culture support and education and don't want tax raises. Politicians can't do what they want without losing support of the voters. And then there are the agendas of the many political parties in many countries...

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

It is, it just doesn't have the will to do so at the moment.

I hope they muster their political capital to back Ukraine.

[-] vastard@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Every new press photo makes him look more and more like a 60s Batman villain. Louie the Lilac vibes.

[-] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

So giving the US a real stake in the security of a non-NATO state is the worst thing in history now? How is this not a win-win for everyone except the military industrial complex who wants to see nothing but constant, bloody war?

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

"worst thing in history", no.

"Terrible and exploitative, and untrustworthy besides"? Yes.

[-] troed@fedia.io 4 points 1 month ago

It has the added bonus on being exactly the thing Russia invaded Ukraine over.

[-] 11111one11111@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago

And to add to this point for everyone saying how high the number is, that's how all geopolitical negotiations work. Trumpnjust doesn't shut his mouth so we're hearing the initial ridiculously higher proposal. I'd be willing to bet if this goes through the actual number is guna be closer to 2-2.5 billion. Half of the initial proposal. Not because Trump is fuckin savy but because that's how this shit usually works.

Ukraine is getting the military support to hold its own. Plus a country's ability to hold and repay debt is what the global economy runs on so having good credit with US will likely help them in the long run.

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[-] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 month ago

Wouldn't be funny if Russia interjected "Hey, we have rare earths. Want some?"

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this post was submitted on 11 Feb 2025
235 points (96.8% liked)

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