Zelensky should agree: he can always renege after the war, claiming he did what he had to do to stay independent like the Finns did after WW2 to justify inviting the Nazis in, and pointing to Trump himself as the quintessential untrustworthy ruler who readily goes back on his word.
Also what Russia did to Ukraine after Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for a pledge to never invade.
Zelensky should. Trump makes trade deals and then renege's on them all the time.
renege’s
The art of the deal
This is, for a sense of scale, more than five times the total value of everything the US has sent to Ukraine since February 2022
Well, there also is a big amount of rebuilding to be done and no matter who would be in the US government, there would be a strong push for the rebuilding to end in factories, apartments and farms to be owned by US investors. Also the US has a history of combining "security" with resource access.
In this regards Ukraine is getting fucked by receiving less aid than is needed to push back, but just enough to cause maximal attrition to Russia. And using the vast destruction caused by a prolonged war, was likely part of the strategy to profit off this war, both for Russia expecting victory and the US/Western Allies expecting Russia to eventually succumb to the attrition.
Now problem is that Russia kept escalating, instead of limiting their losses.
The entire gdp of the country is under $200B. Lol he's asking for resources worth over 2.5X the value of the entire country 🤡
America shows its colours.
It was never freedom, it was money and power all along.
Always has been. Most of the shit they got up to after WW2 violated the human rights of half the planet, was anti-democratic, and imperialistic.
American imperialism mostly halted under Clinton and Obama. The cold war was over and they weren't jingoistic like Bush or Trump.
Even Bush jr wasn't as much imperial as he was militaristic. Iraq and Afghanistan would both have arguably benefited from a time as an American protectorate like Germany or Japan, but W handed over "sovereignty" while the wars were still ongoing.
Trump isn't coherent enough to have an understandable philosophy
Iraq and Afghanistan are nothing like Germany or Japan and if you cannot create a stable government after 20 years of occupation, then there is no indication that more occupation would have done any better.
Frankly the notion that countries being invaded and have masses of their population slaughtered is "for their own benefit" is fascist talk.
You're right, the behavior of how Iraq and Afghanistan were handled was entirely different from either Germany or Japan after WW2.
My assertion is that the USA did too much "occupation" and not enough "governance". Both Iraq and Afghanistan essentially had anti-government resistance movements forced into pseudo-national rule without any time to develop local governance.
Once the states were broken W wanted to get out, essentially since he feared accusations of imperialism. Which kept a good twenty year plan from being implemented, and instead led to a twenty year quagmire with one of the two essentially being a failed state.
(Man, that's a lot of essentially's)
I don't mean to defend either invasion as either good for the people or necessarily for American security. I just want to point out that W's position was "go and break things then go home" which is about as imperial as a viking raid.
Trump isn't coherent enough to have an understandable philosophy
Are you kidding? Trump is incredibly consistent: he simply does exactly what he thinks would most benefit him, personally, and fuck everybody else. No more, no less.
It's only not an "understandable philosophy" in the sense that it's so vile and shamelessly greedy that philosophers are too embarrassed to formalize it (and Ayn Rand doesn't count).
"I just do what I want" isn't a philosophy, because it doesn't give guidance as to what someone else should do . It's just childishness.
Even Randism / Objectivism stretches selfishness into "rich people should do what they want". Trump doesn't even get that far
I'll grant that the orange felon is consistently selfish, though.
Obama escalated Iraq and attacked Syria...
That's every country in the world.
Pretty much. But America doubly so
At least they are open about it this time around.
Isn't this Zelenskyy's original plan that he pitched even before Trump got elected then?
The fourth point of the peace plan is economic: Zelenskyy calls on allied countries to implement “joint investment” plans to exploit Ukraine’s natural resources: “Ukraine has natural resources and critical metals worth trillions of dollars,” he notes. “These include uranium, titanium, lithium, graphite, and other strategic resources, which will either strengthen Russia or Ukraine and the democratic world.”
This is how trump operates.
Postures, bullies, makes loads of noise in order to get what someone else has already agreed to.
Then, cause he was so noisy about it, he gets all the press coverage, and the neo-nazis chock it up as another win
Trump would walk into a coffee shop and threaten to buy out the place and fire everybody if they didn't sell him a cup at the cost they're charging. Then he'd claim victory and boast of his negotiation skills.
And a bunch of idiots would believe it.
This is a Red alert. What he actually said, outside of the headline.
- They might give us the minerals, they may not
- Ukraine may be Russian in the future, it may not
- either way, we (USA) have all this money in the country, and we're getting it back
we’re getting it back
Only an absolute ass would consider that a loan.
Only an idiot would think that Ukraine would actually have half a trillion dollars worth, and that they'd give it all to the USA even if USA blackmail them here. Zelensky will say lots right now to persuade the orange one. But he also won't be in power after the war to see it through, very few leaders are retained after any way.
Ukrainian neutrality was effectively guaranteed by America, UK, and Russia when they gave up their nukes. And there is also an economic clause to this agreement
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
Good thing everybody's respecting laws and treaties these days!
good thing the country has tens of millions of absolute asses
extortion is called "demands" if you are powerful enough
What a cunt
Blackmailer in chief.
The entire war has always been about their resources
This is what the mafia does. Racketeering in exchange for protection... from itself (=in this case, Russia)
Trump has larped as a mobster for most of his life.
He never intended to support Ukraine. Never. This is just some bullshit to act like he's "Justified" in cutting support. Just wait until he finds an excuse to give it to Russia instead.
I wish the EU was in a position to make a better offer.
It could deliver more military support. But the political system, which I'd like to keep btw, doesn't allow a switch to war economy.
People like their social security, culture support and education and don't want tax raises. Politicians can't do what they want without losing support of the voters. And then there are the agendas of the many political parties in many countries...
It is, it just doesn't have the will to do so at the moment.
I hope they muster their political capital to back Ukraine.
Every new press photo makes him look more and more like a 60s Batman villain. Louie the Lilac vibes.
So giving the US a real stake in the security of a non-NATO state is the worst thing in history now? How is this not a win-win for everyone except the military industrial complex who wants to see nothing but constant, bloody war?
"worst thing in history", no.
"Terrible and exploitative, and untrustworthy besides"? Yes.
It has the added bonus on being exactly the thing Russia invaded Ukraine over.
And to add to this point for everyone saying how high the number is, that's how all geopolitical negotiations work. Trumpnjust doesn't shut his mouth so we're hearing the initial ridiculously higher proposal. I'd be willing to bet if this goes through the actual number is guna be closer to 2-2.5 billion. Half of the initial proposal. Not because Trump is fuckin savy but because that's how this shit usually works.
Ukraine is getting the military support to hold its own. Plus a country's ability to hold and repay debt is what the global economy runs on so having good credit with US will likely help them in the long run.
Wouldn't be funny if Russia interjected "Hey, we have rare earths. Want some?"
World News
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link