.world is the most liberal place on the lemmy lmao. If they are too left for you idk what to tell you
There is nothing "left" about tankies.
I'm surprised you see a ton of that on lemmy.world, always found that instance rather tame and moderate, at least by lemmy standards. Certainly compared to Hexbear, ml and Lemmygrad. Are you sure those weren't federated posts from those instances? Anyway, lemm.ee is pretty neutral, lemmy.dbzer0.com leans more anarchist. But you could also just stay on .world and subscribe to communities that align with your views on whatever instance. Unless you have an issue with the moderation on .world specifically, it doesn't really matter.
I'm not an academically trained scholar regarding left-wing theory, but I'd assume that communists and social democrats are still part of the same group, with one naming themselves after a shorter-term goal-state, and the other naming themselves after a longer-term goal-state.
When we talk about state models such as republic, democracy, autocracy, we're either describing a current status, or a model we might want to follow or avoid. When we talk about ideologies (conservatism, liberalism, communism, feminism, etc.) they assert specific values and presumptions that might or might not be true or workable. For instance, in the communist ideal, every participant has exactly the same amount of political and material power; influence is perfectly distributed. But we have no idea how a state like that would look, or work, or if we could ever get there.
Every model and every ideology has problems and concessions we don't understand and have to correct for. The one-person = one-vote thing seems intuitive for democracy, but has terrible side effects, and we're still sorting out alternative election models that might work better.
All this is to say it's a really bad idea to treat any one of them as a racehorse or football team or a banner under which to rally and consolidate political power. None of the models or ideals we have are perfect or absolute, and we have to be prepared to adjust them on the fly, especially as we contend with corruption and bad actors who exploit vulnerabilities.
I suspect everyone on the left ultimately seeks a society in which everyone is materially provided for, in which liberties are as extensive as possible while providing for protections and considering human biases towards certain abberant behavior (e.g. drunk driving) in which there are as few social strata as possible and power is as well distributed as possible. The models that accommodate all these, even to partial degrees, are still very fuzzy. (Western civilization has been working on them for only three hundred years or so.)
So we're at least in the same book, if not on the same page.
i'd like to hear your take on "communism is idiocy".
OP didn't respond so I will take a shot. My understanding is that under communism, the economy has to be planned by the government. Under capitalism, the price of shoes (for example) is usually determined by the demand for shoes and the amount of shoes that can be manufactured. If demand falls, the price falls. If manufacturing capacity increases, the price falls more, etc. This mechanism has feedback loops that make it efficient. In theory, companies never make more shoes than they can sell, because if they do make too many, they can sell the excess by cutting prices. Under communism there is no free market, so the mechanics of supply and demand don't work. Some communist bureaucrat conducts a study and estimates that the country will need 100k pairs of shoes next quarter. The government then makes those shoes in a state-owned factory. Suppose, though, that it turns out that the country needed more. With no free market, there is no competitor to step in and meet the demand for shoes - now you have a shortage. Similarly, you can have considerable waste if you grow too many apples or whatever. In true communism, there is no price to adjust - you either have an apple voucher or you don't. Thus there is generally more problems meeting demand efficiently. This is, in fact, exactly what we saw under the Soviet Union - the stores were often stuffed with unwanted items while long lines developed for items that were in high demand. Without any consideration of authoritarianism etc., this is an often-cited reason for the failure of communism.
I am not a political theorist or an economist, so please correct me if I am wrong.
You've got the general critique from Mises right, but that's an extremely outdated critique that has long been debunked. The article Prices in a Planned Economy helps show how prices in a fully publicly owned economy could be planned, including what you are describing as "price signals." The fact is, the USSR's economy did work, and worked rather well, but issues like having to spend a huge portion of GDP on the defense industry just to keep up with the US starved the rest of the economy for growth, and the Soviets planned by hand rather than by computer. Neither of these issues need to be taken by any Socialist state going forward.
Thanks for the reply! The article you linked was very interesting. I am aware that western propaganda emphasizes the challenges and failures of communism while sweeping the manifold problems with capitalism under the rug, and it is nice to consider a different viewpoint. There is also an unfair tendency among western philosophers to link authoritarianism with communism when there is no philosophical connection. My personal belief is that authoritarianism was already pervasive in imperial Russia and China, and that better explains the brutality that has been unfairly associated with communism.
I would also like to say that capitalism is way less efficient than people are led to believe - take fast fashion, for example. Excess shoes and clothes are constantly being dumped on developing countries because the manufacturers failed to find a buyer at any price.
No problem!
I do disagree on the notion of "authoritarianism." Claims as such usually come from the ruling class in Capitalist countries who saw their class-allies oppressed in Russia and China. For the working class, society became more democratic.
That's a decent point for fast fashion, though it is designed as a "churn and burn" system and is built on the backs of Imperialism, creation in the Global South for poverty wages to sell in the Global North for dirt cheap.
They're almost certainly conflating communism with the authoritarian flavor so enjoyed by the tankies of .ml/hex/grad
“Authoritarian mod craziness”? What communities were you hanging in where this was such a widespread problem?
Also .world is definitely not overwhelmingly communist. You need to start subscribing/blocking just like you probably did on Reddit. There’s no underlying algorithm making decisions for you here. You have full control of what you see. If you don’t like what you see, you can fix it!
I mean let's not pretend that there aren't a lot of psychotic mods on world. It's gets pretty bad. Hell I got banned from a community for criticizing a New York Post article once. Which I mean shit, how do you not?
I never pretended otherwise. But I gotta tell you the same thing I said in another comment where someone was allegedly banned for basically nothing: I highly doubt that’s the entire story
lemmy.world
is too communist for you?!?!?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Spamming emojis just makes you look ridiculous and like your opinions don't matter
Replying uselessly to comments you don’t like just to defend a censorship-happy neoliberal hivemind hotbed makes you look like a petty, bored, very gullible person.
I'd call .world default liberal instead of neoliberal personally. A lot of demsoc types.
That’s fair. However, I’d say anyone that is just fine with the deaths of >50,000 innocent people because of some tenuous revenge premise fall closer on the politicial spectrum to Reagan or Bush than anyone I’d even consider labelling a “liberal”.
Guy, you need to get outside more. This person’s reaction matches about 95% of people in the world.
As someone similar to you, blocking and stuff seems the right approach vs. trying to find a specific instance.
I’m leftist, but
classic lol
.world is about as anticommunist as you can expect, if that's not enough for you maybe you could relocate to one of the Nazi servers
Nah, .world is anti-tankie, but since you are a known Tankie it's unsurprising you would conflate the 2
.world is hardly the home of the tankie, what you see might be posts from lemmy.ml
There are two other places known as lemmygrad and hexbear that are outright communist/tankie that you'll see occasionally brigade when someone posts anything positive about the USA.
This and most others are pretty sane. One that comes to mind for what you're asking particularly might be https://slrpnk.net/signup who seem kind of left but not Stalin left.
Otherwise there's the join Lemmy link at the bottom of any given instance to look through.
Lemmy.world is actively opposed to Marxism and Communism (from moderator and admin POV).
As a side-note, all Communists support democracy, "democratic socialism" is usually ill-defined and meaningless, to one person it means the Nordics and to others it means Marxism without revolution, it only really hurts description.
Lol Cowbee is a well known Tankie, .world is anti-tankie, which are authoritarian "communists"
🤔
lemmy.dbzer0.com is anarchist and stongly hates all states, both USA and the Russia, China types.
lemmy world is neoliberal, I mean, tankies do post there, but the moderation is mostly neoliberal and are anti-violence absolutists, even if its directed towards nazis
lemmy.ml, lemmygrad.ml, and hexbear.net (now chapo.chat) are tankies, avoid those
Pretty much everyone else on lemmy are anti-authoritarian and pro- socialist policies, some are social democrats, others are democratic socialists, some are anarchists.
If you don't like tankies:
lemmy.dbzer0.com (we have !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 😉)
sh.itjust.works
lemmy.ca
sopuli.xyz
piracy community is blocked on lemmy.world btw, so you might as well joine us, or any of my recommended ones.
TLDR: lemmy.world is not "communist", just just a few tankies that love to post thinnly veiled authoritarianism.
Edit: Also, you are probably seeing federated posts from lemmy.ml, I block most of those communities except like a few non-political ones like c/privacy
Also Blåhaj. Seems to be pretty anarchist from what I've seen, and I'd say Blåhaj is perfect if you're queer, especially trans.
Let's talk about this in a little more detail.
What do you consider going off the deep end? What do you consider leftist? Which ideas do you consider idiocy? What is your idea of a society worth living in?
I personally am open to any ideas that exclude discrimination of identity. For me the tolerance paradoxon applies.
I'm happy to hear your thoughts.
I'm also looking for a place without edgy or crazy people.
For me its:
Democratic: yes
Socialism/social net/sharing/helping: yes
Dictatorial: no
Tankie: no
Undemocratic: no
China or CCCP/URSS worship: no
Soviet whitewashing: no
That's about it.
Edit: I was looking for a community not an instance (I have my own but I still uses .world as I had some trouble, time to migrate back home I guess :-) ) but thanks for all helpful comments!
lemmy.dbzer0.com - anarchist, hates all states, both USA and Russia/China types
Other non-tankie options are
sh.itjust.works - shhhh... 🤫 it... just works... 😉
lemmy.ca - Canadian 🇨🇦
sopuli.xyz - Run by a Finn 🇫🇮
db0 is a really cool person. Has the piracy sub there too :-)
Sopuli is very pro Ukrainian. Cool good finnish guy it seems.
i was as naive as OP back in the day, it's alright bro you'll get there
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