From the article...
Previous American presidents have had plenty of tense exchanges with allies, but often in private and never like this.
What made this one different was not just that it unfolded with cameras rolling, but that it featured an American president siding with an autocratic and longtime adversary, Russia, against a nascent democracy that has struggled for years to break away from Moscow’s orbit and join the NATO alliance of Western democracies.
Its dangerous and we shouldn't allow this presidency to continue. Next thing we know we'll be crushing other democratic nations with the autocracies until the whole world is enslaved.
Isnt that the plan though? I think Trump is being pretty open about it.
and we shouldn’t allow this presidency to continue.
There are legal safeguards for that built-in.
If you're not just being hyperbolic (or astroturfing for anarchy), and there is some truth to what you're saying, at some point those safe guards will kick in.
And just because they haven't kicked in yet doesn't mean they won't kick in later.
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Could you be more specific? Because the only safeguard I'm aware of is impeachment and removal, which requires both chambers of Congress to act against Trump and I just don't believe that's going to happen while Republicans control both chambers and impeachment certainly isn't going to "kick in" as if it's some automatic process.
So I'm genuinely curious about what's got you so optimistic
Because the only safeguard I’m aware of is impeachment and removal, which requires both chambers of Congress to act against Trump and I just don’t believe that’s going to happen while Republicans control both chambers and impeachment certainly isn’t going to “kick in” as if it’s some automatic process.
I believe you're incorrect, I believe Congress at some point will act, and that's what I was speaking of. Even a Republican lead one.
You're seeing some split by Republicans, objecting to how Zelensky was treated yesterday at the White House, and up to now you hadn't seen any division whatsoever.
At some point they'll act, if it got to that point.
So I’m genuinely curious about what’s got you so optimistic
Oh I'm definately not optimistic, it's going to be a long three years and tenish months, that's for sure.
I'm just not hyperbolic about it.
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Some Republicans also spoke out against J6 before they all decided it was a regular tourist visit and the violent mob were all political prisoners.
Let's see how they feel about this debacle in a week.
Well if the pressure is left off they're go back into 'Golum' mode, clutching their precious ring (job/money/power).
But if Trump accidentally or otherwise tries to take their ring away from them, things will change.
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The last safe guard is the second amendment. I hope enough liberals will realise that in time.
The last safe guard is the second amendment.
That's something to discuss when we're way closer to 100%, authoritanism, and not 0%.
I hope enough liberals will realise that in time.
You realize there are liberals that own guns, right?
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You will never get to a breaking point. It's cooking frogs from here all the way to a holocaust.
The boiling toad in the pot scenario is a real danger, but I think things would come to a head before that.
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The last few times this happened, it didn't.
The boiling toad in the pot scenario is a real danger, but I think things would come to a head before that.
The last few times this happened, it didn’t.
I think we're marking "would come to a head" at different places on the scale.
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I mean if it comes to a head like the last time, we end up with a Chinese flag on the White House and a generation of lives lost.
No, there really aren't. Every single one has been systematically dismantled already.
No, there really aren’t. Every single one has been systematically dismantled already.
Hard disagree. We're way far away from that being true.
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I truly believe we need to do what the Civil Rights movement did. Bonus points if you bring tents and camp out for the double whammy strike.
Protesting is always good. It gives voice to those who don't have access to media to show their displeasure, and shows other like-minded people that they are not alone.
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Oh give me a fucking break. Defending democracies? Since when has the US not been more likely to destroy democracies than protect them. US Ukraine policy has nothing to do with democracy.
No one loves democracy more than America! America would never overthrow a democratically elected government to protect the business interests of American corporations!
Those nerves you need to stay calm debating with such a jerk...
Nice fantasies you tell to yourselves.
Democracies everywhere breathe a sigh of relief.
Edit: are the downvotes are because I didn’t say thank you to the American people. ?
You can't seriously think that trump's bullshit makes anything better.
How about sticking to the topic ?
You realize that if America isn't "defending" democracies for personal gain, they're tearing them down for personal gain instead... right?
As atrocious as our foreign policy has been over the years, we have been far more keen to pressure authoritarian allies into democratic reforms than other major powers with their allies.
PR matters - it isn't separate from policy, it both shapes and is shaped by policy. And our PR was centered around the idea of being a friend to democracy. That doesn't mean we actually were a friend to democracy - but it does mean that every action against democracy, or every inaction failing to defend it - carried an additional cost - in more intensive propaganda, in lies or subterfuge, in manufacturing issues - that it will no longer carry going forward.
tl;dr; you thought our foreign policy was shitty before? You ain't seen nothin' yet.
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