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End the Imperialist Blockade
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2025
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I think they meant sucking dick like kissing ass, not like sucking dick as a form of punishment. I don’t think it was intended to be homophobic.
Intended or not, it is.
I see that now, but it was admittedly tough to grasp at first. Cowbee was able to clarify for me in another thread on this post. It may be helpful for others.
"Sucking dick" as an insult is homophobic because the root is in shame. Shame, because sexual favors are seen as "subservient," which also has roots in misogyny. Given that I display my pronouns as he/they, it's pretty clearly directed in a manner that tried to depict me in a "shameful" position giving sexual favors to men.
Given that I am also pansexual, this is worse, though they had no way to know.
Tangentially, "kissing ass" has similar roots. Further still, even after having it pointed out, they defended their actions. Certainly not actions I would want a moderator of queer communities to have.
Absurd.
Using it as an insult is homophobic. Doing it for pleasure is the opposite (assuming both pariticipants are men).
I understand how it could be insulting as a command. “Go suck a dick” implies that it’s an undesirable activity to be used as punishment.
I don’t understand the homophobia in using sucking dick like kissing ass, swinging from their nuts, or cucking. They are interchangeable in both context and sexuality.
Again, the root is that performing sexual favors for someone you are supporting or defending is in shame. The source of this shame, is that society sees such an action in a negative light. If you say someone supporting someone is sucking them off, it implies that they are taking a shameful action that if discovered they would be embarrassed.
It weaponizes society's homophobia to silence others. On top of being rude, it's based in misogyny and homophobia.
How is it homophobic if someone told me, a straight man, that I’m kissing a woman’s ass? How do you even know my sexual preference in the first place?
I could understand claims of sexism in general, but homophobia is not all-encompassing to your point of shame.
It wouldn't be homophobic to claim you were kissing a woman's ass. It would still be rooted in sexual shame, which has misognyistic roots. I told you quite plainly that I openly display my pronouns and am a pansexual man, saying I am sucking someone's dick is homophobic in this case.
So the only way to use a sexually charged analogy for sidling without being homophobic is to ensure the sexual act differed from the subject’s sexual preference if they’re homosexual, bisexual, or pansexual, but aligned with their sexual preference if they’re heterosexual?
Also, I thought pronouns only assisted in determining gender. How could I know your sexual preference simply by knowing your gender?
I’m pretty sure you’re asking for more awareness and consideration than most people are willing to provide.
That gets rid of the bulk of the homophobia, technically, but the basis is typically rooted in misogyny regardless and using sexually charged analogies as sources of shame in general should be avoided. I'm not asking for awareness, I'm asking that insults be purely related to the topic at hand and not based on immutable characteristics. Notice how I brushed aside accusations of being a "tankie?" Such an insult is silly, but doesn't assert sexual shame.
I mean, your opinion is fair. I’m just struggling to comprehend how to simply position the change in a way that is both clear and equitable.
It's a very common insult, so it's difficult to address directly. When analyzing an insult, you have to analyze why it's insulting. Why is it that sexual acts based on service specifically are common? Because the service aspect is primary. They specifically didn't say I was "railing Castro" or anything, such an accusation implies dominance and manliness, in a way, while being submissive is shameful. It brings to mind the historical treatment of women as subservient to men, and the historical classification of homosexual men as "feminized."
Consider it this way: why would someone not want to be accused of sucking someone off, vs being accused of being a loyal dog? Where is the distinction? The latter focuses on dehumanization, the former focuses on sexual hierarchy, misogyny, and homophobia.
I think submission is the point. Like kissing ass or cucking, the analogy is meant to express subservience. One-sided sexual favors fit the bill.
The problem may be in determining which submissive acts are appropriate for all sexual preferences.
Submission is indeed the point of the insult. When going into a conversation with the intent to insult based on subservience, the manner you present it determines the source of the insult facor. The message "you are submissive" isn't insulting by itself, so the necessity is to twist it in a manner that hurts. Sexuality is, in its modern form, pretty impossible to detangle from notions of shame brought out by homophobia and patriarchy, hence why I am against it wholecloth.
That’s fair. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective in good faith. I’ll keep this in mind when referencing submission from now on.
No problem, thanks for listening!
Now only ~8 billion more to go. Lol
I'm far from the first or only feminist. I didn't come up with this in any way.
I meant we have a lot of people to educate. I’m pretty sure this isn’t common knowledge, at least for the 6.8 billion heterosexuals.
Not yet, but we can get there.
Just to be clear, they're not actually being sincere. They're even back to defending homophobia elsewhere.
Thanks for letting me know.
What are you talking about? I am completely sincere. Read the whole thread. I didn’t understand Cowbee’s perspective, and challenged it. It took a while, but I now understand the position. I’m going to make a conscious effort to remove sexuality from my submissive analogies based on Cowbee’s insight. Don’t minimize that. This is how people learn.
K
Yeah, not sure how they didn't pick up on that.
I picked up on your intentions, believe me, but the origins for why it is insulting is rooted in shame, misogyny, and homophobia. To copy my comment:
"Sucking dick" as an insult is homophobic because the root is in shame. Shame, because sexual favors are seen as "subservient," which also has roots in misogyny. Given that I display my pronouns as he/they, it's pretty clearly directed in a manner that tried to depict me in a "shameful" position giving sexual favors to men.
Given that I am also pansexual, this is worse, though they had no way to know.
Tangentially, "kissing ass" has similar roots. Further still, even after having it pointed out, they defended their actions. Certainly not actions I would want a moderator of queer communities to have.
So the fact that the LGBTQ+ didn't get equal rights there until after Fidel's death isn't an issue for you?
Of course it is, now Cuba is more progressive for queer people than the vast majority of the world, including the US. I never once said Castro was a saint free of any sin.
Wow, quite the flip flop.
In my stance? Not at all.
Flip Flopping from what, you dumb fuck homophobe?
Yeah, because you're such a shining example...
Least incoherent fascist defending homophobe.
Goes from a golden view of cuba under fidel to saying he wasn't free from sin and all the false accusations of what I am.
You're a clown .
The inability to understand how someone can criticize one person's actions while supporting others is peak Marvel brained politics.
Sure, because criticizing one government for a specific set of actions and hand waving the same actions by a subsequent government is so rational.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
Go back to bed.
Good thing they didn't do that then, you lying asshole.
I have a positive view of Cuba and Castro, and believe them to be working towards immense progress. I additionally believe that they are unduely attacked, overly so, because of being Socialists and the US' interest in recolonizing them.
Your accusation was that it was authouritarian to jail fascists, slavers, and the right-wing American Death Squads, to which I can only think is a defense of letting them run free and murder everyone.
Where did he say Cuba under Fidel was perfect and free from sin, you lying, homophobic piece of shit?