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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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"Both parties are the same."
"A vote for Harris is a vote for genocide."
If you really think Harris would have done anything significant to restrain Israel I envy your optimism. Voters' only realistic choices for Palestine this election were for furrowed brows or enthusiastic cheerleading, but Israel was getting weapons and political cover for whatever it wanted to do either way.
If you really think Harris would have called for a total ethnic cleansing of Palestine, you paid zero attention to anything she ever said.
How many Palestinians did you ask about who to vote for? Because the Palestinians I talked to before the election were not fans of Harris, but rightfully far more terrified of Trump. I actually go out of my way to talk to Palestinians, and so many people berating me for not caring about genocide or whatever, when I ask them how often they talk to Palestinians, they don't answer.
Good on you. 🙌
Thank you.
Like I said, we would have gotten furrowed brows out of Harris, but their wouldn't have been any substantive action to restrain Israel. I voted for her and wished she would have won for a variety of reasons, but trying to guilt trip people who didn't over this particular issue is just completely hollow given the choices we actually had here.
Who am I guilt tripping? How am I guilt tripping them? If you feel guilt about Trump getting elected, that's on you, not me.
Also, I notice you didn't tell me how many Palestinians you talked to about who they would want as president, so I am going to have to assume it's zero and you just think you know what's best for them.
If the Democratic party wanted us to hear Palestinians voices so badly why didn't we hear any at their convention?
I'm not talking about the Democrats, I'm talking about you.
It's very obvious that you have never even attempted to talk to a Palestinian. How Great White Savior of you.
And now the conflict is winding down just in time for the new presidency. Both parties have reached an agreement and Trump is now fanning the flames again. It wouldn't have happened with Harris.
This "Harris wouldn't have done anything different" is moot.
This whole thread is moot but the top level comment was the exact wrong lesson to learn from recent history imo
Recent history has shown that Harris was the correct choice with the power of 20/20 vision. That is the only takeaway. I'm not sure what you're arguing.
Sure, it's sucks that Harris' inability to campaign and commitments to bad policy put the rest of us in this situation for a bunch of reasons, I'm just saying for Palestine in particular isn't really one of them because her track record in office and behavior on the campaign trail made it clear she was always going to let Israel do whatever it wanted, so the "look what Israel's doing now, don't you protest voters feel silly" arguments just aren't gonna land with anyone who didn't already agree with you
I think it's a bit unfair to criticize her like that considering she entered the race quite late but had pretty good plans all around vs none from the other guy. But that's not the point.
But, like, don't you feel silly? This is worse, no? Lol
Considering she stated she would do nothing different than Biden, yes it is another vote for genocide. The only difference offered between the 2 political parties on this issue is, lip service and ‘another month to leave’. To say the dems were seriously offering a different stance here is cope
Trump is literally doing something different than Biden. He literally wants Palestine cleared of Palestinians. Biden never even approached saying something like that.
No one is claiming Biden or Harris would be good for Palestine. This is far, far worse.
Or is this is one of these "what are you going to believe, me or your own eyes" things?
The something different is, trump is not providing lip service and expediting what is already being done. It was gonna happen either way. If you’re kill them torturing with false promises seems just as cruel. Biden just sent another 8billion in arms at the beginning of this month. I mean c’mon
Biden and the democrats supported a two state solution. Trump is going give the West Bank and Gaza to Israel.
Biden’s actions don’t seem to agree with that…
Trump is about to delete Gaza and the West Bank off of the world map. Biden was far from perfect but verbally was never in support of that.
The more I engage with "protest voters" the more I wonder if, for whatever reason, they are actually accelerationists at heart. Which is ethically dubious as their action (or lack thereof) has accelerated a genocide.
Aiding the genocide has accelerated the genocide. No gymnastics to see that
Dude…. Just take the mask off and be done with it. It’s not like everyone doesn’t already know.
I’m vehemently against aiding genocide. Period. Biden was complicit and we protested. Now trump is complicit and we still need to and continue to protest.
Suit yourself. I gave you an off-ramp, but I can’t force you to take it. Just know that it’ll be there in the future should you need it.
As Trump has shown he will do. Above and beyond anything Biden has said or done.
trump has a lot of aid to provide to get there. I’m sure he will get there eventually. If only there was someone who could have done something sooner…hell it could have had an impact on voters, if not at least lessen the damage. But I suppose it’s better to not learn anything here and complain about people who find supporting genocide inexcusable.
It’s ok though, you can come out and protest with us still. We’d like to have you
Prove it.
Can you prove it wasn’t? c’mon Edit: Jan 4, 2025 Joe Biden sent another 8 billion in arms. He didn’t have to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy_Law
That's not how the burden of proof works. You made the claim, it's up to you to show it wasn't a lie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)
It's also a bad faith question to prove someone's thoughts.
Let me ask you this, what proof would you accept?
Not the person your arguing with.
How can I know what I would accept unless I saw it?
But thata exactly the point. Your not willing to accept any proof. So why should someone bother?
It's bad faith arguing.
I know exactly what proof it'd take to convince me the world is flat. And it's a simple explanation for all current observable effects.
No one has yet.
So asking for proof, AND setting the bar of that I'd accept is part of the burden of proof.
I am absolutely willing to accept proof and please do not make false accusations about me.
And I do not know what proof it would take me to convince me the world is flat either.
I'm not as smart as you, but I can't help that.
I know I'm stupid but that's not a reason to say things about me that aren't true.
Just admit your not accepting proof.
You took someone's proof, and just stuck your head in the sand without actually addressing anything.
That's what makes this bad faith. It has nothing to do with smarts.
Okay, well you clearly know Flying Squid better than I do, so I'll just cede this to you.
I can't really admit to what Flying Squid will or will not accept though, because the Flying Squid I thought I knew was willing to accept proof when he saw it, which I thought he didn't see in this case. I thought maybe he was just too stupid to understand what the proof was or he missed it or something, but apparently not.
I just don't know him like you do.
However, since I am apparently not Flying Squid, perhaps you can tell me what proof there was that he refused to accept? Alternately, you could just continue to berate Flying Squid. Of course, the Flying Squid I thought I knew already hated himself to the point that there were only a handful of things keeping him from jumping off a building as it is so I doubt all of this berating will do much.
But again, I don't know him like you do.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/biden-administration-notifies-congress-of-planned-8-billion-weapons-sale-to-israel
That is not in any way, shape or form proof that Biden would want Gaza emptied of Palestinians like Trump.
No one is denying he sold arms to Israel. No one is justifying it.
That was not what you claimed. You claimed he would have done exactly what Trump is doing.
Prove it.
Maybe they are going to bake cakes with the munitions?…or be used to rebuild infrastructure with them. How many bombs does it take to rebuild a hospital?? lol
You just saying things isn't proof that Biden had the same plans as Trump. Sorry.
I swear if you cross one more red line…(Wags finger)
I suppose we’ll never know if Biden wasn’t ok with Israel’s leaked plans, even though he continued to aid an open genocide up until his last moments of office. Please, you can’t be serious here.
Once again, you just saying things is not proof that Biden had the same plans as Trump.
"Trust me, bro" is not proof of anything other than you not having anything to back up your claim.
Actions speak louder. He was unwavering until the end. All of Biden’s actions have already happened and it was a genocide the whole time. The people going after Gaza supporters are the same ones who would rather cut and run instead of protesting when it counts.
Do you not understand what proof means?
In his interview with Time magazine:
Today's headline: Trump says he wants to 'clean out' Gaza and move Palestinians to Jordan and Egypt
All in one week. No difference, right?