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Americans alcohol consumption reaches all time low.
(www.npr.org)
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this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2025
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honestly there's just better buzzes out there with less side effects, especially for social fun
cannabis (not quite the same, but great social lubricant if everyone starts sober and gets high together)
kratom (more medical utility but can be fun for outdoor adventures in groups. starts as a stim and ends with some sleepiness, so plan properly) (DISCLAIMER: not recommended for experimentation but has current and historical uses as an alcohol alternative) for more info check out layla's guide
kava (basically IRL synthahol from star trek. dials right in to the 1-2 drink buzz with no risk of further. downside is reverse tolerance and doesn't work for everyone)
some kind of GABA-B substance (more risky since most are research chems (F-phenibut comes to mind), often very long lasting, but all the inhibition of alcohol without being drunk and hard to black out on unlike GHB agonists).
(all have a risk of addiction as any substance but comedowns/withdrawals are significantly less then alcohol, as well as not being potentially lethal. also OD risk is either physically impossible or extremely difficult)
I don't know how to say this nicely. Don't do kratom unless you're already an opioid addict and you need to come off. It's not a safe drug to experiment with recreationally because it's so easy to get addicted to. I'm a heavy drug user and promote experimenting with drugs except for opioids (and kratom) because of how many people I've seen absolutely ruin their lives on it.
i know vastly more people that use kratom occasionally and responsibly then don't. not everyone has that spark inside that lights up when mu receptors are tripped. just because we have it doesn't apply to everyone.
much of the recent media blitz against kratom is due to the kratom lobby's deal with RFK jr to ban 7-OH in exchange for saving leaf kratom. not sure if this is going to work.
increase in addiction to "kratom" is mostly due to ease of access to 7-OH and highly potent liquid concentrates at gas stations. in high doses, kratom's natural antagonists are overwhelmed by the partial opioid agonists (or in the case of 7-OH, full agonists). thus, it behaves more like a classical opioid. and since the average person's first exposure to kratom these days is potent concentrate shots, they can more easily become physically addicted.
occasional use of leaf (or full spectrum concentrates) has low risk of physical addiction. leaf at less then 1-2 g a day could take months to develop physical addiction.
i used kratom to get off stronger opioids, and to prevent cravings or a relapse. for .50 a day it was a fine bargin to make. all my plugs disappeared, i fell away from the scene entirely, and can now taper slowly at my leisure.
but it is vastly more difficult to become instantly addicted off kratom because it's short acting, partial agonism, and delta action. too much and it's like you've taken Salvia, right down to the "flushing" effect, dizziness, and disassociation. it's like a built in braking system. also nearly impossible to OD.
not sure how this is ruining lives. there will always be exceptions. compared to every other opioid out there, it is the safest and best tolerated and that's an absolute scientific fact
I definitely think it should be legal and accessible because it's a valuable tool for people on opioids. I don't think we have a kratom epidemic. But in a conversation about alcohol alternatives with people who aren't as informed about drug experimentation, I'd voice that kratom as a lot more potential consequences from say kava, cannabis, etc.
i don't disagree with you there. look i mod the drugs com, and our #1 priority is harm reduction. and i know we aren't on it right now
i added disclaimers, i can add more for kratom. but it is undeniably used as an alternative to alcohol for many people (i often read the AKA testimonials and i was surprised myself), i can't conceal that fact.
Have you really seen people ruin their lives from just kratom use?
Yes. I had a buddy who started taking it to ween away from his alcoholic tendency to enjoy a 5th of whiskey every night, and he quickly became addicted.
He told me the withdrawals felt worse than what he was dealing with from the alcohol (though he was getting hit with both), ended up losing his job and spiraling into a recluse who spent all his time in bed or doing kratom. He eventually got help and got better.
There's this idea that its a "safe" drug, and posts encouraging its use in threads like these as some sort of alternative to getting drunk don't help that perception. Its very addictive and the withdrawal symptoms suck just as much if not more than with booze, although I don't think you can die from Kratom withdrawal the way you can from alcohol. Someone fact check me on that.
Edit: What makes it dangerous is how quickly you can become physically dependent on Kratom.
I found alcohol much worse, a lot closer to what I have seen in fent withdrawal (never personally experienced that fortunately)
Definitely became dependant but it felt more like antidepressant dependency, where the addiction isn't psychologically difficult but stopping cold turkey sucks. Sometimes I wonder if it would have been much harder to quit if I didn't have to order it in the mail, which is a pretty good obstacle for a craving.
I mean there's not a lot of research into kratom withdrawal, but from my experience it's not anywhere near deadly, and I've withdrawn from pretty high doses. I had a much worse time withdrawaling from alcohol and actual opiates, kratom withdrawal was something that I could still hold my job through,
I recommend kratom to users of pretty much any hard drugs because it's far more functional of a drug. I know people who didn't really get sober, but they switched out their meth or fentanyl use with kratom and started living functional lives. Shit, I did it with fentanyl and got my life back for a while, it really only got nasty when I started mixing it with alcohol or experimenting with 7-OH.
It's safe in the sense that compared to everything else you can get ahold of, it's the least likely to ruin your life.
Yeah. Dude's aren't ODing on it, but they just sit in their apartment everyday doing nothing but kratom. It ruins tour social life, it ruins your work life, and it just straight up ruins your life because it's so hard to stop using.
It helped me get to work as the least impairing drug I found that dulled my emotional pain enough. After work was for liquor lol
I feel like I had a pretty successful run with it and the times I had to withdrawal weren't nearly as bad as what people say, though I guess you can't know what your withdrawal will be like until you've done it
how's that even possible? by your second dose you feel nothing. your bloodstream is loaded with anatongists it's like being on narcan. only people that i'm aware of doing this are in severe, chronic pain.
it's not heroin there is no escalating high. at most you feel like you took 1 vicodin. this has got to be people pounding down 7-OH tablets, which is 0.05% of kratom by weight and purely synthetic
fwiw, I hear kratom hits different if you've never been on dope
Not kratom in isolation. But if there is one drug that I'd say to not fuck around with it's opioid and opioid-like analgesics. I have some friends who have been struggling for the past 15 years to get off of opioids, and many who didn't make it. No other drug category has contributed more to decimating my friend group.
I worked in addiction treatment and harm reduction. The demons who took your friends from you will not stop until as many people are dead as possible. It is class warfare imo. Wish you and your friends well comrade.
This is very sensationalist
Kava tastes like very bitter dirt, unfortunately.
There are a few kava bars in town and I tried one of their expensive kava cocktails and oh my god it still tasted like fucking dirt.
I kinda like how kava tastes, but my other favorite drink (unsweetned smoked yerba mate) also tastes like grass so maybe I just like muddy flavor
What up fellow earthy drink enjoyer lol I will tolerate all kinds of gross tastes if they give me the right kinda buzz
yeah kava < kratom for taste and that's saying something
i prefer the powdered extracts simply because it doesn't taste as bad in some coconut juice
There are better buzzes. Exercise, eating right, volunteering, hobbies.
obviously. i'm talking about recreational substances though not good habits.
those will always be the superior choice but humans (and mammals) occasionally like altered states of consiousness
Why not both? Get a good workout in and work up a good body high, then take a THC gummy
That's how I incentivize myself to get to the gym lol
🎶goody two, goody two, goody, goody two shoes
don't drink don't smoke, what do you do? 🎶
jokes aside good for you! what hobbies do you get your 'buzz' from?
I wanna try Kava! When I was drinking heavily, I’d have 2-3 kratom drinks daily (3.5g each) but now that I’m not drinking all the time, I don’t really feel like having kratom. Vaping nicotine is also not fun now that I’m not drinking. Kava sounds fun, though!
Phenibut felt awful to me, made me dissociate for like two days the last time I did it. Not for me anymore.
You mention GHB… I miss GHB so much. GHB plus exercise, like biking, or just a nice walk outside is such an amazing feeling.
GHB got a bad rap. it was far less commonly used for unsavory stuff but was folded in to the legislation focused mostly on rohypnol because it was a popular "supplement" for insomnia and some lobbies had it added
honestly i could call it a perfect alcohol replacement if it was legal. would be like a 95% improvement. plus instead of a hangover you get a burst of dopamine and feel great the next day
phenibut lasts almost 48 hrs that's why I clarified with F-phenibut, which is far shorter acting although more potent by weight (lasts 4-6 hrs, x10 potency). still not for everyone, and physically addictive (with w/d similiar to benzos but less intense)
and if you don't feel like kratom i'd definately say stick with that feeling. it sucks to get addicted to even if it takes a long time/high doses.
Kava can't hurt to try. it's more widely available now that they grow it in florida too and the price has come way down. just be sure to have an empty stomach, maybe try an extract first before you get into mashing powdered root in coconut milk
I loooove GHB so much. It DID definitely make my partner and I more frisky than usual, but it was just awesome to get messed up on without drinking! My partner and I would weigh out 1.7 grams, drink that, then top it off with .5 a half hour later and just FLOAT.
There is one danger though… I had a friend who got REEEALLY into GHB. Like, she would do it every single night before bed, and not weigh it out using a scale. She had a great time for a while, but when she wanted to quit, she had HORRIBLE insomnia… since it works on your GABA and serotonin and stuff. She tried to quit sooo hard but the lack of sleep was destroying her. She ended up getting really drunk one night cuz she didn’t have GHB, had a bad run-in with someone we used to be friends with, and went home and died by suicide.
I’m not blaming GHB on this, but it definitely was a main contributor as to the downfall of her mental health. The main culprit was addiction.
But yah, GHB can definitely be addictive to people susceptible to that. I’m “lucky” that the only thing that my partner and I got sucked into (and we’ve done everything…) was alcohol.
oh yeah like everything that plays with neurotransmitters it can be no joke. really sorry about your friend. i lost my bestie in a similar way, but different substance (bad run in with authorities, betrayed by neighbors, and did the same)
i binged alcohol early in my life, like partying on some weekends from 16 to 20 and then just stopped when 21. did worse stuff after but i'm glad i dodged at least one
I’m sorry about your bestie, too. That’s awful. :c
My partner and I have been partying every night with like 15+ drinks since before COVID, so being sober this week for the first time in so many years has been wild! Other than the shit sleep, it’s been totally fine though!
keep it up! don't let small derailments take away your progress if they happen.
once the insomnia fades (or you find a good supplement or aid to help) you will both be 90% there
with good sleep comes strong willpower and it's just a matter of filling your former party time with other fun stuff instead
Thank you! I’m okay with the bad sleep right now, waking up and not being hung over is amazing! My partner and I have Gabapentin, which definitely helps for sleeping.
So far we’ve filled the time we’d be drinking with naps, cuz we’ve been exhausted after working. I’ve got some games and movies planned, and it’s nice enough to take walks now!
I didn't know about most of those. I am so uncool.
nah this stuff isn't cool and i just listed legal or "legal most everywhere in the U.S., check your local laws" substances. basically stuff that can be purchased by those over 21 like alcohol, locality depending.
i'm the nerd here for knowing about this off the dome