95
Does he not know Armstrong is the bad guy?
(hexbear.net)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
95 points (100.0% liked)
games
20476 readers
445 users here now
Tabletop, DnD, board games, and minecraft. Also Animal Crossing.
-
3rd International Volunteer Brigade (Hexbear gaming discord)
Rules
- No racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, or transphobia. Don't care if it's ironic don't post comments or content like that here.
- Mark spoilers
- No bad mouthing sonic games here :no-copyright:
- No gamers allowed :soviet-huff:
- No squabbling or petty arguments here. Remember to disengage and respect others choice to do so when an argument gets too much
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
They can't spot a political message if it's already comfortable and cozy to them.
They want to get back to wholesome nonpolitical historically accurate stories where a grizzled middle aged father figure white man uses lots of violence against dehumanized others to avenge his fridged wife and/or rescue/protect some camera-oogled teenage daughter figure.
I think chud
, whether they're 15 year olds getting poisoned by 
and Andrew Tate or 50 year old divorce dads getting poisoned by, well, 
and Andrew Tate, have a hard time even visualizing what a living family that loves them might look like so it has to be postmortem revenge or estranged violence-will-win-them-back edginess.
Lol i have that but because of trauma so
Doesn't mean I wish violence to get the love i'm missing.
You bring this up a lot but the only game I can think of that comes close to matching this description is TLOU, and I wouldn't call that a bad game and I don't think the narrative is inherently right wing or anything. Obviously chuds did end up loving it because their reaction to TLOU2 shows they were attached to Joel (despite Joel being a morally grey character at best, who was always going to meet the violent end that he did meet. And I think Naughty Dog intended for that so I think much like characters like Walter White they didn't really write the character to have the hero worship he got.) Also does the camera ogle Ellie in the original? I haven't actually played the game lmao but I'm not aware of it doing so and it doesnt in the footage I've seen. I think perverts that sexualized her just imposed their sexuality on her regardless.
Bioshock Infinite has the daughter figure that gets male gazed, but I dont think she's underage? And the enemies aren't dehumanized others really. Its also a mess of a game narratively that both sides racism of course but yaknow.
If there's other games like that I'm not aware of them. Or I'm forgetting about them.
Not trying to challenge or argue just kind of curious what games you are referring to when you say this.
There's shades of it in Bioshock (no fridged wife, but definitely defend/protect the daughter), Gears of War at the very start (fridged wife is the primary plot motivator), God of War (dead wife as plot motivator at the very start), the Witcher series (adopted daughter figure as a primary motivator and one of the only people the narrative rails don't punish the player for trying to be nice to them), and its all over the Walking Dead games, the Dishonored series (though the daughter is given more agency and playability as time goes on so I guess there's that) and it's in the bones of the Fatal Frame series with some cliche-bending twists (such as playing the daughter figure and the father figure being absent) but in some ways it's worse there when it comes to overall creepiness, and the above examples are just off the top of my head. There's more but it's a blur because I noticed that avenge-dead-wife-and/or-rescue/protect-daughter-figure plot cliche so many times I started rejecting it in advance.
Dubiously aged is often the point, where there's wiggle room to escape controversy while still inviting titillation (anime/manga does this all the time with "she is actually 1000 years old but looks and acts and talks like a child" tactics), especially because that character in Bioshock is both the player protagonist's daughter and is constantly showing cleavage shots on the promotional material, which makes her age less of a hurdle to cleanly clear when it comes to getting
s off.
OK I'm mostly with you here. I'm putting my foot down on The Walking Dead Telltale game being included in this! Clementine isn't sexualized in the slightest, not a teenager, and is a well developed character with her own agency. And the relationship between her and Lee is sweet, not weird. I know your focus is the narrative device in general but I feel icky putting Clem in the same category as Elizabeth lol.
It also helps that Clem becomes the player character in the sequels.
Also I havent played the Witcher games but from what I know of them I think Ciri deserves a bit more credit than that as well, even if I can see how it fits into the general category of the plot device.
ETA: No arguments about the prevalence of fridging though.
Full confession, I only saw the Walking Dead series from afar and the moment I heard about daughters in peril this and dead wives that I just shoved it in my "not interested at all" bin. The worker abuse at Telltale because of "grind culture" was the only interest I had in reading about the series.
Maybe I should mostly emphasize the fridging of dead wives as a plot cliche over the less directly common but still terrible escort/rescue-oogled-daughter-figure cliche, though I could do an entire side rant about what a creep David Cage is and the kind of slime he oozes as a glaring example of the latter part of that comment I made.
The Walking Dead Telltale game tells its own story separate from the comics/show, which contain a lot more shitty fridging and disposable women (though too be fair, its a anyone can die type of story so there's plenty of men dying too lol, the show has a bad habit of killing of its black and gay characters though regardless of gender and there is definitly elements of fridging women). I still personally enjoy it but it has a lot of problems. But the first Telltale Walking Dead is to me a masterpiece of emotional storytelling and the Lee/Clem relationship doesnt really follow the same tropes you're talking about. I think someone's wife does die in that one but its not the player character's wife and like... lots of people die in that lol. In fact thinking of it of the two charachters other than Clem who survive one has a dead wife and kid and one is a woman with a dead boyfriend so yeah its pretty equal opportunity. Oh wait I forgot the one with a dead racist dad lol. But anyway I'm info dumping.
Obviously the worker abuse shit was terrible lol but while the rest of the company's output is mixed bag the first Walking Dead game is very, very good and I wouldn't put Clem in that category even if there might be some appeal for gamers who want to PROTECC DAUGHTER for chuddy reasons.
That's been a time honored lazy writing tradition going back decades.