314
Biden says he'll shut down the border if deal gives him authority
(www.politico.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
314 points (95.9% liked)
politics
19097 readers
1972 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
6 million illegals in 3 years. Its a problem. Hell a couple thousand caused problems for NYC. How do tiny border towns stand a chance?
Stand a chance to what?
Maintain infrastructure, pay for roads that can handle the traffic, pay for public schools that can handle the masses, pay for enough fire fighters and trucks, shit like that, and ramp up in the time frame of 3 years
That's what taxes are for. Which undocumented immigrants pay.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-immigrants-taxes-rent-vaccine-requirements-983035929946
I'm having a hard time believing that undocumented immigrants pay all their taxes. You can say they pay some for sure, since there's no way they don't pay sales tax and such. Wouldn't undocumented immigrants not have to pay the largest tax most folks have to pay, though, since they likely wouldn't be paying income tax? I suppose if they once held a work visa or whatever, and had it expire, and they never relocated or changed jobs somehow, they'd still be paying their income tax, but I feel like that'd be rare, unless workplaces have no idea when your visa expires, and isn't required to fire you when they find out.
I wish that article wasn't about some random twitter post, and had more information in it. Maybe then they would have explained this. I would have assumed the tweet was BS the moment they said those folks don't have to pay rent. Like... where did the person who believed that tweet think those fellas lived?
Their taxes are taken out of their paychecks like everyone else. They just don't get refunds and they don't get to apply for social security or medicare or, in most states, even medicaid. That means that they get very little back for what they give.
And if you have a problem with people not paying their fair share of taxes, start with Elon Musk, not some guy who's picking fruit.
You're assuming they receive paychecks at all, though. All undocumented immigrants I've known the situations of in my time (which is very few mind you, so it's possible that this is not the norm) got paid in cash for the work they did, instead of getting a check. And I find it unlikely that the business or person paying them in cash under the table would have gone and paid their income tax for them and announced "These are the taxes the illegal immigrants I hire are paying!" and I even more doubt that the folks who received the funds paid their income tax on their own, since their employers were already playing on their fears of being discovered by the government to pay them lower wages than the market would normally accept (I want to say it was below the federal minimum at the time).
While I agree that we should totally be getting more taxes from rich folks. It's not really relevant to the current discussion about the taxes paid by undocumented immigrants. That said, I'm not super concerned about undocumented immigrants paying income tax, since it's really the fellas who employ them that are the problem. I was only mentioning it because I was curious as to how true what that article was saying really was, since it did not match my experiences.
The first article I linked to shows they do indeed pay payroll taxes. So your personal anecdote does not trump the numbers.
Dang bro, you're right. I mistakenly assumed the article was over at the section where they presented me with other articles to read, since it didn't make sense for them to show me that if the article I was reading continued. So from my perspective the article was basically "They pay taxes, we promise.". They even used language that seemed to close out the article to me before that section by saying "More importantly, the claims about taxes, housing costs and immunizations are false." and not elaborating further.
I wouldn't have even made my first comment had I seen the section below, since they answered exactly the questions I was asking. Haha. I was about to roll in here and ask if we had even looked at the same article, before I gave it a second look. I guess in the end, we hadn't.
This whole ITIN thing is interesting, I've seen the fields for it in the past, but never really thought about it too much since I always assumed it was for people who are in like... a transitional period of their immigration of sorts, not for fellas who aren't supposed to be working. The article that the article linked about ITINs makes it sound like you can even get your tax return with it. That's crazy, but it makes sense.
To add a different anecdotal perspective for you: I live in Texas and work in the construction industry. I work alongside undocumented workers every single day. Jump in the truck "Home Depot Handymen" exist but they are not nearly as prevalent as you seem to believe.
What most of the guys are doing is getting their hands on some form of fake documentation. Employers are obliged to look the other way until it becomes a problem and so the worker is pretty much employed the same as anyone else. They receive benefits, they pay taxes, they work longer hours than anyone else.
Like I said in my comment, I've met very few undocumented immigrants. And realistically, if they can perform a job as a normal person, and pay taxes like a normal person, then even if I have met more, I likely never knew, because why would you go around telling folks about your situation in that case. That'd be a good way to blow your cover. And it's not like I'm going to ask about their experience immigrating, since that's not really a subject that's appropriate to approach with people you don't know.
I live in the middle of nowhere, so my experience is likely vastly different from all y'all's. So it's nice to hear your perspectives. Thanks for sharing.
The vast, overwhelming majority, of undocumented immigrants I know, and I know a lot in my trade, receive a paycheck just like everyone else. And yes, payroll taxes are deducted from that check, just like everyone else's.
Yeah, I learned all about ITINs and other ways that these folks can get real jobs and pay taxes a few hours ago. It was quite an interesting read.
They pay sales taxes, sure. But they don't pay income or property taxes, not without an SSN. (Texas does not have an income tax, but has property taxes. The Feds have an income tax. Don't be pedantic)
Sorry... so you're blaming immigrants for the fact that Texas' tax regulations are severely fucked up?
Maybe Texas shouldn't cater so much of their tax code to rich people? Shouldn't that be the issue?
How is having property tax but not income tax fucked up? How does it cater to rich people, any more than having income tax?
https://www.chron.com/politics/article/Texas-income-tax-property-laws-business-owners-16610385.php
https://news.bloombergtax.com/tax-insights-and-commentary/texas-wealth-tax-ban-was-a-mistake-other-states-shouldnt-repeat
https://itep.org/whopays/texas/
But sure, it's immigrants that are the tax burden.
Odd that there was no response to this.
How exactly are you proposing that these people don't pay property tax?
I would also wager that the amount of unreported tip income is just as large a problem as undocumented workers from a tax standpoint.
Undocumented immigrants pay income tax if they use someone else's SSN or even without an SSN by using an ITIN
So you're suggesting that illegal immigrants should steal identities to pay taxes?
No bud, we're suggesting that they already do, because they're given no other option.
Given no other option because they illegally immigrated
No, he's suggesting that your original statement (the one actually being discussed) is wrong. No one suggested that immigrants SHOULD do anything, especially identity theft. Your whataboutism has no power here. Stop embarrassing yourself.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Taxes pay for all of those things. They don't just crumble to dust in the proximity of non-citizens.
They just want to have a lame excuse to be racist. That's all this is.
You're forgetting that the entire reason why so many people enter illegally* is because it's next to impossible to enter legally unkess you have lots of connections in the US. Your average foreigner doesn't stand a chance.
Don't want 6 million people to enter illegally? Make it easier to enter legally. It's that simple, yet people like you will never understand that. "Securing the border" only makes the problem worse. We should be opening it instead.
493,000 immigrant visas were given out in 2022. It's extremely easy to enter, just too many too quick, and y'all have to wait your turn.
Eh, but how much of that is tourist visas. And where are they coming from.
I'm of the opinion that an open border with Mexico is an issue. Which just should not be controversial.
But I'm also married to someone who entered with a tourism visa. Legal immigration is nearly impossible in the US. There are very very few options for a person to enter the country and be on a path to a green card. Saying otherwise is purely ignorant.
Non immigrant visas are up to 6.8 million in 2022.
You should look at what the requirements look like for an immigrant Visa. The average person in South America does not have the ability to satisfy those requirements. But that doesn't mean they are unable to become a valuable and contributing member of society.
I know people in the US that came here illegally and have gone on to become business owners. But only because they were able to meet and marry a US citizen.
There needs to be a legal path to entry. And we should be stopping the flood of people coming over the border at the same time.
We can only take so many, so quickly. What we're doing now is completely unsustainable.
So why not select for the best and brightest?
People who work highly educated or skilled jobs don’t actually want the US to allow a bunch of immigrants to come and compete with them. That’s the situation with tech workers and H1B visas. Jobs going unfilled right now are not the ones worked by the best and brightest or most highly educated…
So basically, no workers want immigrants
What would be best for American workers is for immigrants to either have full right to work and be in the country, and therefore full wages and protection of labor laws, or not be in the labor force at all. Business owners want them to be here in a vulnerable, marginalized position so they can take advantage of them, which also screws over citizens. Note that it’s the business owners who hire illegal immigrants screwing over Americans, not the immigrants.
I can't agree with that. It's only unsustainable because we have a flood of immigrants coming over the border and a catch-and-release program.
And my wife has a PhD, of which she did a year in the US. Not in something useless like poetry, but in meteorology. She did not have the connections to get a US sponsorship from an employer. So without knowing someone, she was without options.
I know immigrants who have found their way into the US legally, and overstayed. They have gone on to become business owners, or successful in their respective fields. The issue with your assumption is that you think we're actually effective at selecting the best and brightest.
The reality is that if we secured our borders, we wouldn't be overwhelmed.