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cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/4112192

Men that carried out terrorist attack on concert in Russia received funds from Ukraine.

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[-] duderium@hexbear.net 36 points 7 months ago

What is a leftist exactly? Is the guy a communist? No. Is he allied to communists? Yes. Is he fighting imperialism? Yes.

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 34 points 7 months ago

Is he fighting imperialism?

only by accident. don't forget the critical part of critical support. the enemy of our enemy isn't our good friend.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago

It’s not an accident, and intentions don’t matter only actions. Radlibs never cease their mind reading moralizing

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 10 points 7 months ago

sorry i meant accident as in circumstance. he's by no means a reliable friend.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago

Tell that to the millions of Syrians he saved from western backed jihadist fascism.

He’s the foremost anti-imperialist force on Earth currently, adopting the stances of KJU with the military and geopolitical might to back it up. Meanwhile China putts around trying to placate the west still, and meanwhile half the global south is run by open compradors. Why don’t you focus your ire on our enemies who are many instead of our foremost friend in a small group of friends?

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 15 points 7 months ago

Why don’t you focus your ire on our enemies who are many instead of our foremost friend in a small group of friends?

what fucking part of critical

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago

You are forgetting the “support” part of critical support

[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 5 points 7 months ago

michael-laugh perfect. This is so common seeing people pile on the criticism instead of focusing on the support

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 4 points 7 months ago

no i'm not. russia isn't our primary contradiction unless you're queer and live there, it's useful to the rest of us for now, and it's on the right side of any conflict it has with nato, but that's as far as it goes.

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago

Why don’t you focus your ire on our enemies who are many instead of our foremost friend in a small group of friends?

This is where I have to say the CRITICAL part of critical support has to come into play. Russia is a nation with a long history that encompasses many eras and ideologies. Putin on some level has been able to posit the idea that Russias imperial, Soviet, and modern history is one long unbroken history of the Russian people as a whole in a way that should be extremely sus to us as communists. Putin is an ally of the global south yes, but his commitments on a base level ideologically can only be described as liberal and that’s obviously a problem that should be brought up. You can’t tell people to just ignore Russia and its actions (good or bad doesn’t matter) when they’re one of the superpowers of the world.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 21 points 7 months ago

Also literally everything that has ever happened is due to circumstance. We are materialists here right?

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago

He is not allied with communists let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 24 points 7 months ago

He is allied with AES nations such as the DPRK, that’s a fact

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 24 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I said this in another comment sorry for double posting. Keep in mind is entire career he tried to ally himself with the west up to the point they literally went to war with him. Putin does not get a pass just because he’s allied with with these nations, we need to come at this from the position of “the least he could do is have good relations with these nations”

Putin is not a communist so his actions, while much better than the US, should be seen under the lens of right wing and be criticized as such when applicable.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 19 points 7 months ago

STOP MORALIZING. STOP MIND READING. LOOK AT REALITY

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 23 points 7 months ago

You gonna actually point anything out? or just keep typing in caps because it makes your non point look better? What are you even saying at this point. It shouldn’t be out of hand to admit Putin has done good things, but we should be skeptical of a guy who tried to join the Nazi club for his entire career. He doesn’t get a cookie for having what should be considered normal relations to the global south you fucking ding dong.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 16 points 7 months ago

i just want you to use historical materialism evenly instead of haphazardly and drop your western programming of russiaphobic exceptionalism. For Putin and only Putin we mind read and judge based on hypotheticals.

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 13 points 7 months ago

You’re barking up the wrong tree, I’m easily one of the most openly pro SMO people on this site.

drop your western programming of russiaphobic exceptionalism.

Literally where?

For Putin and only Putin we mind read and judge based on hypotheticals.

Again literally where?

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

sorry, I thought I was talking to the other person and got mixed up. Lots of comments.

I'm just saying, the mind reading and hypotheticals about Putin gets real old from supposed "materialists" and "realists" on most other subjects. China and Deng did join the Nazi club that you're shitting on Putin for trying to join, they didn't join NATO militarily but damn did they sell out big time and help the US and the west a lot, that shit with Kissinger is embarrassing too. I try to see the bigger picture because maybe they had to do it. Putin was leading a defeated and looted Russia, he was groveling because Russia was weak and he had no choice. Now he no longer does that.

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I see your point, but I will say you cannot hold China and Russia to the same standard. You’re absolutely correct that China has done some sus shit over the years but to say

Putin was leading a defeated and looted Russia, he was groveling because Russia was weak and he had no choice.

Okay I understand and somewhat agree, because you’re right Russia had been essentially taken over by the west and we shouldn’t downplay the role Putin played in fixing it, but Russia was already developed as a nation and already had somewhat of a roadmap to a developed future thanks to the Soviets. Now compare that with China who for the longest time was one of if not THE poorest nations on the planet before cooperating with the west, had no roadmap other than a history of dynastic control, being invaded by the west, invasion of Japan, civil war. Just an extremely harsh situation for the Chinese that is much more comparable to the Soviet experience than it is to modern Russias experience. It’s much more understandable for China to want to cooperate with the west than modern Russia would. The Chinese situation is more like the Soviets taking lend lease materials than it is comparable to modern Russia groveling to be let into the imperialism club.

Now he no longer does that.

He did it until he couldn’t anymore because he’s a lib and has always been a lib at heart.

[-] UmbraVivi@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago

You really don't have to hand it to Putin.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 15 points 7 months ago
[-] UmbraVivi@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago

Okay after reading your other arguments I will hand it to him that he does anti-imperialism, but the ridiculous reactionary domestic Russian politics are hard to excuse

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago

I agree you do, but only so far.

[-] HexbearGPT@hexbear.net 21 points 7 months ago

Fighting imperialism? Lmao. He’s a billionaire oligarch exactly like any US ghoul.

[-] ikilledtheradiostar@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago

I love articles about his networth.

Like this one. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/28/business/vladimir-putin-wealth-sanctions/index.html

Nobody knows but it's definitely gorzilliom dollars.

[-] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 29 points 7 months ago

They do the same with Castro and any pushback is met with “is it really that hard to imagine a dictator hoarding wealth?”

[-] ikilledtheradiostar@hexbear.net 36 points 7 months ago

Google Stalin net worth and mfers will say with a straight face "the entire productive capacity of the soviet Union".

[-] yuli@hexbear.net 27 points 7 months ago

to be fair, they had to produce a very large spoon, which took the full industrial capacity, just so he could eat the full agricultural capacity.

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 20 points 7 months ago

Fighting imperialism, like democracy or voting or anti colonialism, doesn’t automatically make you a good person nor are you required to be one to do these things.

[-] dannoffs@hexbear.net 11 points 7 months ago

Hexbear users be like: he's our neoliberal.

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I’ll be one to admit yeah that kinda is the take right now unfortunately. I’ll even go so far as to coin him a neonationalist as dumb as that term sounds and really only applies to Russia so far. Maybe also America.

[-] dead@hexbear.net 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This is from the Tucker Carlson interview. When asked about NATO expansion after the USSR ended, Putin says that NATO has no reason to expand because the Russia economy matches the interests of the US. Putin says "We are bourgeois now as you are. We are a market economy and there is no communist party with power."



[-] Sephitard9001@hexbear.net 35 points 7 months ago

That doesn't contradict who you're replying to. This statement is literally true, all communists I've ever talked to know this statement is true. You can probably count the number of communists who think Putin is secretly trying to recreate the Soviet Union on one hand.

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 12 points 7 months ago

he'll hit the button to reanimate lenin any day now

[-] NikkiB@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 7 months ago

Let's be real, he is not allied with communists.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 20 points 7 months ago

He’s allied to DPRK, Cuba, Venezuela and China. If they aren’t communists then nobody is

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 10 points 7 months ago

Keep in mind is entire career he tried to ally himself with the west up to the point they literally went to war with him. Putin does not get a pass just because he’s allied with with these nations, we need to come at this from the position of “the least he could do is have good relations with these nations”

[-] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 11 points 7 months ago

Still, it's hard not to feel a little bad for him being like Homer Simpson trying to join the no Homers club

Yeah he sucks and he was trying to join an evil organization but they were such assholes to him on a personal level, like they just rejected him for being Russian

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago

Absolutely and you’ll never see me say otherwise. That being said it’s not out of hand to be disappointed at the leader of the former largest anti fascist nation try to get into the Nazi club.

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[-] NikkiB@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 7 months ago

Not the communists I was referring to, and aligning with states which practices an ideology is not the same as supporting and sanctioning said ideology. He represses communism at home because he likely understand the threat they pose to his power.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 13 points 7 months ago

I don't care. The primary contradiction is more important.

[-] NikkiB@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 7 months ago

That makes sense, even so we shouldn't have any delusions about who he is and what he stands for.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago

And calling him an imperialist or fascist is one of those delusions common among radlibs and still lingering among the squishier hexbears

[-] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 7 months ago
[-] NikkiB@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 7 months ago

Not really what I meant, I was more referring to his attitude towards Russian communists. He might align with China for all sorts of reasons beyond personal agreement with communism.

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It depends on how you look at it. He’s an ally to Chinese communists because they share military and trade relations and are only friendly terms with each other. He’s not an ally to them if you look at it ideologically because he considers communism a failure and inferior to whatever he has going on. And perhaps the Chinese don’t care at all that’s he’s anti communists because they care about the material support more.

I doubt Xi’s Marxism Leninist ideology is ever on Putin’s mind, the same way MBS being a literal monarch is likely not on Xi’s mind. It’s not really about communism vs capitalism anymore. It’s about markets and whose guns will be on your side or out of your way

[-] DengistDonnieDarko@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago

Something something redfash agorbitarian etc and so forth

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this post was submitted on 28 Mar 2024
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