cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/4112192
Men that carried out terrorist attack on concert in Russia received funds from Ukraine.
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Putin is not a leftist.
What is a leftist exactly? Is the guy a communist? No. Is he allied to communists? Yes. Is he fighting imperialism? Yes.
only by accident. don't forget the critical part of critical support. the enemy of our enemy isn't our good friend.
It’s not an accident, and intentions don’t matter only actions. Radlibs never cease their mind reading moralizing
sorry i meant accident as in circumstance. he's by no means a reliable friend.
Tell that to the millions of Syrians he saved from western backed jihadist fascism.
He’s the foremost anti-imperialist force on Earth currently, adopting the stances of KJU with the military and geopolitical might to back it up. Meanwhile China putts around trying to placate the west still, and meanwhile half the global south is run by open compradors. Why don’t you focus your ire on our enemies who are many instead of our foremost friend in a small group of friends?
what fucking part of critical
You are forgetting the “support” part of critical support
no i'm not. russia isn't our primary contradiction unless you're queer and live there, it's useful to the rest of us for now, and it's on the right side of any conflict it has with nato, but that's as far as it goes.
This is where I have to say the CRITICAL part of critical support has to come into play. Russia is a nation with a long history that encompasses many eras and ideologies. Putin on some level has been able to posit the idea that Russias imperial, Soviet, and modern history is one long unbroken history of the Russian people as a whole in a way that should be extremely sus to us as communists. Putin is an ally of the global south yes, but his commitments on a base level ideologically can only be described as liberal and that’s obviously a problem that should be brought up. You can’t tell people to just ignore Russia and its actions (good or bad doesn’t matter) when they’re one of the superpowers of the world.
Also literally everything that has ever happened is due to circumstance. We are materialists here right?
He is not allied with communists let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.
He is allied with AES nations such as the DPRK, that’s a fact
I said this in another comment sorry for double posting. Keep in mind is entire career he tried to ally himself with the west up to the point they literally went to war with him. Putin does not get a pass just because he’s allied with with these nations, we need to come at this from the position of “the least he could do is have good relations with these nations”
Putin is not a communist so his actions, while much better than the US, should be seen under the lens of right wing and be criticized as such when applicable.
STOP MORALIZING. STOP MIND READING. LOOK AT REALITY
You gonna actually point anything out? or just keep typing in caps because it makes your non point look better? What are you even saying at this point. It shouldn’t be out of hand to admit Putin has done good things, but we should be skeptical of a guy who tried to join the Nazi club for his entire career. He doesn’t get a cookie for having what should be considered normal relations to the global south you fucking ding dong.
i just want you to use historical materialism evenly instead of haphazardly and drop your western programming of russiaphobic exceptionalism. For Putin and only Putin we mind read and judge based on hypotheticals.
You’re barking up the wrong tree, I’m easily one of the most openly pro SMO people on this site.
Literally where?
Again literally where?
sorry, I thought I was talking to the other person and got mixed up. Lots of comments.
I'm just saying, the mind reading and hypotheticals about Putin gets real old from supposed "materialists" and "realists" on most other subjects. China and Deng did join the Nazi club that you're shitting on Putin for trying to join, they didn't join NATO militarily but damn did they sell out big time and help the US and the west a lot, that shit with Kissinger is embarrassing too. I try to see the bigger picture because maybe they had to do it. Putin was leading a defeated and looted Russia, he was groveling because Russia was weak and he had no choice. Now he no longer does that.
I see your point, but I will say you cannot hold China and Russia to the same standard. You’re absolutely correct that China has done some sus shit over the years but to say
Okay I understand and somewhat agree, because you’re right Russia had been essentially taken over by the west and we shouldn’t downplay the role Putin played in fixing it, but Russia was already developed as a nation and already had somewhat of a roadmap to a developed future thanks to the Soviets. Now compare that with China who for the longest time was one of if not THE poorest nations on the planet before cooperating with the west, had no roadmap other than a history of dynastic control, being invaded by the west, invasion of Japan, civil war. Just an extremely harsh situation for the Chinese that is much more comparable to the Soviet experience than it is to modern Russias experience. It’s much more understandable for China to want to cooperate with the west than modern Russia would. The Chinese situation is more like the Soviets taking lend lease materials than it is comparable to modern Russia groveling to be let into the imperialism club.
He did it until he couldn’t anymore because he’s a lib and has always been a lib at heart.
You really don't have to hand it to Putin.
You do
Okay after reading your other arguments I will hand it to him that he does anti-imperialism, but the ridiculous reactionary domestic Russian politics are hard to excuse
I agree you do, but only so far.
Fighting imperialism? Lmao. He’s a billionaire oligarch exactly like any US ghoul.
I love articles about his networth.
Like this one. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/28/business/vladimir-putin-wealth-sanctions/index.html
Nobody knows but it's definitely gorzilliom dollars.
They do the same with Castro and any pushback is met with “is it really that hard to imagine a dictator hoarding wealth?”
Google Stalin net worth and mfers will say with a straight face "the entire productive capacity of the soviet Union".
to be fair, they had to produce a very large spoon, which took the full industrial capacity, just so he could eat the full agricultural capacity.
Fighting imperialism, like democracy or voting or anti colonialism, doesn’t automatically make you a good person nor are you required to be one to do these things.
Hexbear users be like: he's our neoliberal.
I’ll be one to admit yeah that kinda is the take right now unfortunately. I’ll even go so far as to coin him a neonationalist as dumb as that term sounds and really only applies to Russia so far. Maybe also America.
This is from the Tucker Carlson interview. When asked about NATO expansion after the USSR ended, Putin says that NATO has no reason to expand because the Russia economy matches the interests of the US. Putin says "We are bourgeois now as you are. We are a market economy and there is no communist party with power."
That doesn't contradict who you're replying to. This statement is literally true, all communists I've ever talked to know this statement is true. You can probably count the number of communists who think Putin is secretly trying to recreate the Soviet Union on one hand.
he'll hit the button to reanimate lenin any day now
Let's be real, he is not allied with communists.
He’s allied to DPRK, Cuba, Venezuela and China. If they aren’t communists then nobody is
Keep in mind is entire career he tried to ally himself with the west up to the point they literally went to war with him. Putin does not get a pass just because he’s allied with with these nations, we need to come at this from the position of “the least he could do is have good relations with these nations”
Still, it's hard not to feel a little bad for him being like Homer Simpson trying to join the no Homers club
Yeah he sucks and he was trying to join an evil organization but they were such assholes to him on a personal level, like they just rejected him for being Russian
Absolutely and you’ll never see me say otherwise. That being said it’s not out of hand to be disappointed at the leader of the former largest anti fascist nation try to get into the Nazi club.
Not the communists I was referring to, and aligning with states which practices an ideology is not the same as supporting and sanctioning said ideology. He represses communism at home because he likely understand the threat they pose to his power.
I don't care. The primary contradiction is more important.
That makes sense, even so we shouldn't have any delusions about who he is and what he stands for.
And calling him an imperialist or fascist is one of those delusions common among radlibs and still lingering among the squishier hexbears
What about China?
Not really what I meant, I was more referring to his attitude towards Russian communists. He might align with China for all sorts of reasons beyond personal agreement with communism.
It depends on how you look at it. He’s an ally to Chinese communists because they share military and trade relations and are only friendly terms with each other. He’s not an ally to them if you look at it ideologically because he considers communism a failure and inferior to whatever he has going on. And perhaps the Chinese don’t care at all that’s he’s anti communists because they care about the material support more.
I doubt Xi’s Marxism Leninist ideology is ever on Putin’s mind, the same way MBS being a literal monarch is likely not on Xi’s mind. It’s not really about communism vs capitalism anymore. It’s about markets and whose guns will be on your side or out of your way
Something something redfash agorbitarian etc and so forth