view the rest of the comments
News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
Alternately, you're talking as if facilitating the whole network, including the torturing and killing, is somehow better than doing the actual torturing and killing.
Yes, running chat groups is not as bad as actually torturing and killing monkeys.
This type of comment always really bothers me. You are misrepresenting what is being compared. It's not running chatrooms that is being judged. It's facilitating and organizing the creation and distribution of animal torture content. If he was running chatrooms about my little pony no one would care. Framing it as running chat rooms is dishonest. Flying planes isn't bad. Flying planes into buildings is. Say out loud the part you are trying to to minimize.
How so? I didn't say he ran some innocent or general chat groups, they were obviously involved in horrific shit. You are misrepresenting what I am saying.
Without him the tortures wouldn't have happened or at least be minimised.
So he is directly responsible for the extra torture he himself knowingly facilitated.
Without the people willing to torture and murder the animals it wouldn't have happened.
Making doing a bad thing easier makes the bad thing happen more. This is a really simple concept.
Right, but it needs people to do it in the first place.
No one is saying that's not true. You are not making a point there. Connecting the people willing to do it to the people willing to view it increases demand and increases the occurrence.
You don't seem to be making a very different point here. Yes, it increases demand, but, as I said, those committing the violence are the ones who should be held more to account in my opinion, which is what start this conversation chain.
The start of the conversation seems to be someone saying that what he did was fucked up and he deserves more than 5 years for it. Then you wanted to make a distinction about his role in the torture for entertainment industry. If your point was that the people committing the torture directly should receive longer sentences than him then you did just about the worst job possible to convey that.
I made it pretty clear yesterday.
No you didn't. That doesn't make your supposed point that the people that did the torture directly deserve more time in jail than him. You took a weird stand at a weird time and communicated it very poorly the whole way through.
Yes it does. "A weird time"? I don't choose to post at specific times of the day. Never mind then.
No it doesn't. It says nothing about relative jail time. The weird time is the point of the conversation you joined in at.
Of course it doesn't, I wasn't addressing that specifically, but you can understand that is part and parcel of what a 'worse' crime should get.
What is weird about joining a conversation at the start?
Then what exactly were you addressing? You haven't made the intent of your initial comment clear at all. SeaJ said that what the guy did was fucked up and deserves more jail time. What does that have to do with your comment? He didn't say anything about the sentencing for the others.
Whoa! Look at them go, digging up that goal post! Where y’all think they’ll move it to next?
Willing to say the same thing about child porn and sex trafficking?
Why not? If you do the act yourself it's worse than asking someone. Just like it would be for murder, the murderer gets longer behind bars, this is not surprising.
I disagree
Willingly and knowingly promoting and distributing and organizing inhumane acts is as equally bad as commiting the core inhumane act directly. The goal and impact are equal.
In my opinion there is no spectrum for comparison in inhumane acts. It simple is or isn't.
Hitler was just as inhumane as the ones he ordered to commit the acts.
There is no better or worse, just is or isn't.
Those are fair points. Would, hypothetically, someone who is off the deep end be punished just as badly as someone who decided to follow those words? Or would it depend on their position of authority?
I'd leave that up to judge and jury with real details rather than hypotheticals, but I do think for justice to be accurate the state of mind, intentions, and many other factors should be considered.
I do think a person who was mentally competent, understanding the act is inhumane would get a more harsh justice than a person who wasn't.
I think authority doesn't have a direct role in deciding justice
I don't think following orders is an excuse, each of us has a duty to understand what we are doing and are responsible for the results. but if a person was incapable of understanding the results of their actions that is different from a person who was.
A person who has authority likely is knowing and competent and intentional, and the wider impact of their actions will implicitly have harsher justice without directly considering their authority
Most countries have protections for people disobeying illegal orders, and most countries make inhumane acts illegal so I feel like this well covered.
Was he charged with "running a chat group?" Or "conspiracy to create and distribute animal-crushing videos?"
What did he do?
I don't like that it's "up to five years".
I've read it twice, thanks.
You'd never know it!
Funny. Try again.
Yeah, how about YOU try again. If you can’t see what’s wrong with being the distributor, coordinator, enabler, promoter, etc., of such horrible acts, then something’s really wrong with you. Argue all you want, you’re still WRONG.
Another strawman, well done. I never said it was okay. What's wrong with you? Rhetorical question by the way, I really don't care.
Organizing the torture of hundreds of animals is better than torturing one animal yourself?
Good strawman.
You should probably actually learn fallacies before using the wrong one where it is not applicable.
I'm okay, like I said, I have no interest in your responses so you can stop.
I’ll stop when the ignorant are willing to learn.
Okay, you must be trolling. No one is this stupid.
Don't be a cunt.
I'm not. Take your own advice.
You called me a troll and stupid. Yes, you are.
I genuinely didn't expect to find someone defending the torture king earnestly, I think my words were justified
Except I didn't defend him. Try again.
Lol you have no idea what a straw man is. Cute.
From your response you clearly do not.
Boy are you wrong
Why?
Somebody check this guy's hard drive ASAP. Nobody makes this kind of argument unless they're downloading some deranged shit from Telegram.
You'd be surprisingly bored.