187
submitted 2 months ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/news@hexbear.net
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 39 points 2 months ago

It might be an unpopular view here but I don't think it really has anything to do with finances. Fertility rate goes up the poorer people are.

I think it's more to do with the general sense of no future worth continuing that people have, and a cultural attitude of hating kids that seems to have built up in western countries. People didn't hate children 30 years ago the same way they hate children today. Children were a part of everyday life outdoors on every street, you really didn't do well in the world if you got mad about kids every time you saw them because outside of school hours they were omnipresent outdoors.

[-] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 24 points 2 months ago

Oh yeah, one thing about fertility rates going down is because Teen pregnancies are way down

[-] jack@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago

That doesn't explain the general trend because they've always been a relatively low proportion of births.

[-] ahriboy@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 months ago

Coupled with sex education, there would be less chances of occuring teenage pregnancy.

[-] Diuretic_Materialism@hexbear.net 22 points 2 months ago

Fertility rate goes up the poorer people are.

I think it's more that families that have been poor for generations know how to raise kids on a budget but people who grew up middle class don't want to have kids unless they can offer them roughly the same quality of life they had, which is increasingly inaccessible.

[-] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

I feel like all life advice in "the middle class" is like... Don't have kids until you have an established career, mortgage, and can afford a babysitter/daycare.

That's not to say the modern situation is entirely caused by that. One thing I thought of is if you're a peasant, kids might not actually be that helpful in the field but you can keep an eye on your kids fucking about while you plow fields or whatever. Once urbanisation and bosses happen, you can't just bring your kid into the office while you make sales calls (unless your child is also losing fingers in the textile factory). Modern farms are also different to older farms; you don't really want your kids to be around heavy machinery too much, though farmers kids I know spent a decent amount of time hanging out with their parents in the combine harvester etc (unlike literally every urban worker I know).

The survey answer of global hopelessness feels a bit post-hoc to me. I know its a popular narrative, but many doomed societies that have felt doomed have had very high birthrates.

Individualism is also another one.

[-] jack@hexbear.net 20 points 2 months ago

It might be an unpopular view here but I don't think it really has anything to do with finances.

The survey posted is literally showing that it is the primary reason. And it didn't ignore your concerns:

Nearly a quarter (23%) of Millennials and Gen Z without children do not plan to become parents, primarily due to financial reasons. Furthermore, 31% of Millennials and Gen Z who say they don’t plan to become a parent attribute this to the social and political world their children would inherit.

The idea that the world is so hopeless it would be wrong to bring kids into it is real, but it is absolutely not the primary reason. Unless you have a source that says otherwise.

[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 18 points 2 months ago

I think it's more to do with the general sense of no future worth continuing that people have, and a cultural attitude of hating kids

Yeah, while finances are an issue i agree its more that sense that the future will be worse. Blaming finances is easier, not just to communicate but also for people to wrap their minds around without having to confront the dread of the future if things continue the way they are.

Part of me feels the hatred of children and antinatalism in general is a reaction to people not being able to afford kids/feeling there's no future for children of their own. The way antinatalists speak, there has to be something more there

[-] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Agreed. I’ve been a teacher before and I don’t hate kids. So I think the problem is that “I hate kids” is more of a lie we tell ourselves because we cannot in good conscience have kids.

There’s also the fact that the onus is always on women, so we know this is a proxy for something else. If more kids was that much of a priority the bourgeoisie would make some concessions in order to get it. They’d allow more building in “prime real estate” walkable cities and introduce the idea of “community” to America. They’d take a hit on their rent prices and let young people move to the walkable cities they yearn for so they can actually meet people, and you know, get laid to have kids.

But no, their idea is that they want to mandate that women reproduce or be tossed in jail, and further hammer in the idea for men that if they don’t get laid by age 30 they’re a hopeless loser.

[-] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago

If more kids was that much of a priority the bourgeoisie would make some concessions in order to get it.

They are making about as much concession as for mitigating climate change, so they are consistent.

[-] bigboopballs@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

men that if they don’t get laid by age 30 they’re a hopeless loser.

hey, that's me. already 34 in fact. sadness-abysmal

[-] SubstantialNothingness@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago

This survey does an awful job of separating out the motivations.

Financial freedom (43%) was equal to financial inability (43%), and a smaller group (31%) "attribute this to the social and political world their children would inherit."

I would argue that increasing financial pressures are social and political realities, rather than something separate.

And there's no mention of an option for "not wanting to bring children into this hell world based on aspects other than social or political realities" - like climate change or ecological destruction.

Regardless, it does look like there are multiple factors at play here, including a concern for the future that goes beyond personal finance.

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

The way antinatalists speak, there has to be something more there

They don't want to change diapers, I think

[-] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Fertility rate goes up the poorer people are.

People are poorer now than 10 years ago, but fertility rate hasn't gone up.

[-] jack@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

And it's declined the most among Black and Native Americans and least among Asian Americans

[-] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago

It might be an unpopular view here but I don't think it really has anything to do with finances. Fertility rate goes up the poorer people are.

The Global South has a higher birth rate than the imperial core. I don't think it has anything to do with finances at all. Are Congolese artisanal miners and Bangladeshi sweatshop workers somehow more financially secure than some software developer living in the West?

[-] jack@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The conditions of child rearing are so socially and economically different in the impoverished global south versus the imperial core that there's no way to isolate those variables.

And as I've said elsewhere, the headline isn't conjecture. It's the answer people gave to a survey. When asked why they aren't having kids, young Americans say finances are the primary reason.

this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2024
187 points (99.0% liked)

news

23568 readers
601 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS