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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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I'm not American. I live in Europe.
But I'll give an insight. Socdem party lost support for most people because they systemically failed to address the issues of the working class.
People can have empathy for other people's problems. But when no one cares about your problems a ñnd election after election they ask you to vote them because empathy to others, and never for your own good, because they never do anything for you. And your life keeps getting worse and worse, and still they refuse to address your problems, and keep wanting your vote just for "stopping fascism" or "being solidary"... You can do that for one election, maybe two... But at some point you just phase out, you just cannot care anymore. If they don't do anything for you, and you need something being done, you just don't vote.
And seeing the low democratic turnout in the US, I think it may be the answer. Maybe people that didn't show up yesterday is people that needed their problem solved the last 4 years and they just got ignored by the Democratic party. So they just didn't vote the Democratic party out of spite.
I will actually probably won't vote in my country next election. Fully knowing that the conservative and fascist parties will win and form a coalition government.
But SocDem and Communists have been ruling 8 years and they failed to address my issues. I cannot, in good conscience, keep giving them my vote knowing what they are doing with it. I just have my dignity. I will stand against the altRight on my own terms when they'll raise to power if necessary, but I'll refuse to give my vote to anyone who didn't deserve it.
I dont understand that sentiment... i mean yes, i agree the parties should absolutely do more and listen to their voters... but the fact of the matter you have to play the game because the alternative is worst. You think noone listens to you now? What makes you think letting the opposition win will do for you? It will only make your life worse.
Do you think the governments in 1930's europe appeared out of thin air? No, they were elected until they held enoigh power to consume total power. Literally tens of millions of people suffered all over the world because people became complacent.
Dont ever give up hope vote for the lesser evil and push for more grass roots movements so the lesser evil will become the even lesser. If you dont, you may never have that freedom again.
heres a game, i have a hot iron, you will press your hand to it and i will role a dice, the first role is with a d6 if it lands on 1 i will give you £30, the second time i will role a d12 if again it lands on 1 i will give you £30, this dice becomes progressively bigger and your odds smaller the longer this game runs. will you continue to play the game?
So as long the alternative is worse. Yes. You think an hot iron is uncomfortable? Try being thrown in pot of boiling oil. Thats the alternative.
So you gave up hope for a better future a long time ago?
No. Giving up voting is giving up a better future. The system is rigged. But the president is by designed limited in power. Change happens in the congress and local politics. The president merely holds the peices togather.
But congratulations, the short sightedness just handed the keys to the kingdom to a single man. The only check and balance trump has is the infighting within the Republican party and his own incompetence.
Sorry but in the face of fascism, idealism should take a backseat. You can't prod a party to do better by voting for the opposition and you shouldn't punish everyone that is more vulnerable then you are just because you don't like your options. The time to build is between presidential elections anyways.
But we didn’t get here yesterday. It took a long, long time, as long as I am old ( I am almost 50), for it to get this hot. And Democrats in the US, Social Democrats in Europe own a lion share of this turn to fascism. They’d really rather change words than meanings. Politicians that is, not academics. They dismissed the ones who once gave them this power to change the lives of the working classes for the better. Unfortunately it was the workers themselves, so they lost that support. They thought they could keep their power with support from the corporations that are in direct conflict with the workers. Now this hasn’t worked, what will happen?
I can only speak to the politics in the US, but you're right in that Democrat officials are largely are wordy with little talk and no bite. I don't know if I directly blame them for the right turning fascist over the last 10 years but you can't fight a growing fire by conceding ground and feeding it while hoping that it'll be less hungry next time. The start of the fire was definitely started by Trump's propaganda in 2016 but the kindling was laid out prior in acts like Citizen's United. People were bored and wanted something different in 2016, republicans being ethically blind to damage their policies might cause. Dems really fucked up by backstabbing Bernie and forcing a bad candidate into the spotlight. 8 years later and they haven't learned anything and the working class is still left behind.
I don't know the answer to forcing the Democratic party to fix its mistakes, I just know where it went wrong.
All I'm hearing is you want a slow painful existence. Just don't play the game, join a revolutionary movement and appeal to the working class, its a far more fun game 😉
You think revolution is a great time? and chances of it fixing anything is very low. All it causes is turmoil and a power vacuum.
Socialism fixes the issue of power vacuum silly. I think revolution will lead to a better time than now. Global communism is the only tenable conclusion unless we wish to regress or are you one of those that believes capitalism is the end of history?
Tell me which revolution that ended in a democractic socialist society and one that didnt involve millions of people suffering for years?
Look at the nordic countries. They didnt have revolution to acheive their socialism. It was democraticly elected. Is it perfect? Of course not, but its more than most countries have achieved.
Not a Nordic country but one with a socialist history and with that history I've watched as the NHS has been slowly deconstructed year after year, the UK had a revolutionary social housing project which is now gone sold of to private interests and even labour a party for the working class and one that still calls itself socialist looks more like the Tory's each day being filled to the brim with landlords and sir's, knights. This is why I follow the Marxist philosophy. And attending an interesting meeting a few months ago I can say the Nordic countries aren't fairing much better. Reformism only works at the start and all reforms are liable for conversion.
We're currently trailing wheelchair rentals in NHS hospitals, essentially you go in with a broken leg, waiting hours for a medical examination and the nurse rocks up and asks you to cough up two pound an hour. Of course that two pound won't go back to the NHS instead it goes to a private healthcare contractor.
I get it. Complacency allows the top to slowly chip away from the bottom. Im not saying to stand and take it. Make your voice heard.
But what im saying you cant expect not participating to improve your situation. You have to make small wins where you can. Without the support of large social movements, change will be slow and tedious and it may seem nothing changes for the better your entire life. But if you give up and stop putting up any resistance, you can be sure the top will topple the tower and you will have nothing left and will have to rebuild. And the chances of rebuilding to something grander is much more unlikely because you already surrender your only advantage.
its not even complacency, its a system built into to capitalist and class based politics, this is why i will take the revolutionary approach and seek to dismantle the state. France had an anarchist revolution where the anarchist completed they're task and put down the weapons and tools and left a power vacuum, Marx supported the revolution but while witnessing the aftermath that erupted afterwards Marx seeked solutions, this is why revolutionary socialists seek the complete removal of the old state.
Marx himself did say the working class should vote in they're interest, and i support this notion. now if the working class feel voting goes against they're interest who am i to say they are wrong, i wont be getting libbed up over it. instead i use these opportunities to point people towards Marxism.
Socdem party? When have we ever had one?
The point is, they don't need your vote. Your sword is a threat to no one while sheathed.
Pretty spot on from my perspective. I did vote but it was more because there we're two proposals on the ballot that I did care about. If not for those I would have probably skipped voting. I'm just exhausted at this point because my life has continued to worsen as long as I've been an adult and everyone's fixated on LGBT and other shit that doesn't even affect me or most of the other people that feel the need to have an opinion on it. We can just let people live their lives... What about housing, healthcare, wages, and all the other basic quality of life shit that helps everyone?
On top of that my vote for president didn't matter anyway because the district I'm in would always go red and for most of the local positions there aren't even democrat or even 3rd party options.
Correct. Democrats - especially the more SJW ones - keep advocating for the end of the Gaza genocide (which is a legitimate point) but won't offer any hope for own citizens who can't make ends meet due to inflation. Then the only choice is to vote to the other guy who promises those things. It is not that the other guy can improve this but at least he acknowledged that it was a problem that bothers voters.
I wonder what he thinks by ending the Gaza genocide. I have a feeling it'll mean an accelerated one.