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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH honk

For context Libs on Bsky are passing aroudn this fascists shithead's bullshit book "On Tyranny" as a manual for "resisting authoritarianism" THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE YOU LIBERAL SHITWIPES!

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[-] _pi@lemmy.ml 32 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

My favorite stuff to read in genocide studies is when Western academics shiv each other on political grounds.

Norman Naimark is an interesting case. He's a super right wing guy, Hoover Institution, literally Galician parents and all that. Wrote a book called Stalin's Genocides

He's unique because he posits that the definition of genocide should be broadened and one of this hobby horses (that I interestingly enough entertain and mildly agree with) is that kulaks became a targeted class. Which brings up some interesting points like, if I manufacture a class of people that are labeled as enemies, and I just slide those goalposts to be able to push more people into that class does that constitute a genocide? It's a very postmodern proposal to redefine genocide.

Ironically another right wing guy called Michael Ellman does not like Naimarks theory because:

"The liberal interpretation of genocide that Naimark favors is... in line with recent jurisprudence. However, he fails to point out the boomerang effect of such an interpretation. According to a recent book by a U.S. specialist on genocide... the massacres of some of the native Americans by European settlers, the Atlantic Slave Trade, the use of a nuclear bomb against Nagasaki...should all be considered genocides. This would make the United States founded on two genocides and guilty... of more... In view of this boomerang effect, my advice to Western governments is to stick to a strict constructionist interpretation of genocide. Hence, I disagree with Naimark’s wish to classify Stalin’s mass murders as genocide."

It would stain the credibility of the United States.....

Ironically, Snyder and Applebaum (like Naimark) point to the USSR's advocacy for current and specific definition of genocide as the reason that USSR actions don't fall into the legalistic criteria of genocide, they also do not see this potential for blowback. Ellman doesn't even acknowledge things in recent history that would fit the extended definition (which would effectively add all ethnic cleansing into the criterion) such as "Mexican Repatriation".

It's almost like this term is a political football in-as much as it is a descriptor of historic atrocity.

[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 26 points 5 days ago

kulaks became a targeted class

Turns out communists target classes. Weren't they extremely explicit about this? And the pearl-clutching libs then say that "every domestic enemy of the state was called a kulak"

Or do you mean, like, they were all explicitly targeted with death as the only allowable outcome rather than the dissolution of there class? (a number of them were killed either way, of course)

[-] urmums401k@hexbear.net 7 points 5 days ago

Yeah, its not like anyone who matters has ever actually given a shit about genocide, by any definition heretofore proposed.

[-] _pi@lemmy.ml 16 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Yeah fun fact that I just wanted to look it up. Naimark has basically gone on an Israeli podcast and has toed the academic line, about how you can't just destroy Palestinians because you want to. He didn't call it a genocide, he explicitly denied it was a genocide but said it was ethnic cleansing. And he also used the term "the so-called Nakba".

The host by the end of it looks so sad because he really thought he was gonna get this Jewish Genocide Studies scholar to definitively say, YOU CAN TREAT THE PALESTINIANS LIKE DOGS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qocuOyP4i2g

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 10 points 5 days ago

My understanding is "ethnic cleansing" is a euphemism for genocide with no distinct meaning. It's used to launder certain genocides as "less bad". Is that a fair assessment?

[-] _pi@lemmy.ml 10 points 5 days ago

In terms of a distinct meaning, ethnic cleansing is a descriptor of generally dispossessing a people, where genocide is a descriptor of destroying a people. You can ethnically cleanse people without destroying them.

Genocide itself used in the IR sense is a legal charge according to the genocide convention. Not all ethnic cleansing counts as genocide in the genocide convention.

[-] urmums401k@hexbear.net 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Ugh. So many former humans choosing to join a 'protocols of the elders of Zion'/'the turner diaries' crossover LARP, and everyone just keeps kayfabe. Like they can be neutral on this shit.

[-] _pi@lemmy.ml 11 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

everyone just keeps kayfabe. Like they can be neutral on this shit.

TBF this was the "center-right" and polite position in academia all along.

The consensus has been there for a long time.

[-] urmums401k@hexbear.net 7 points 5 days ago

Yeah. How are we doing on that 'western civilization' thing? Any progress?

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 17 points 5 days ago

Some Westerns are adopting bidets and learning to wash their asses. Hope remains, however dim it may be.

[-] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
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