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At a secret workshop in Ukraine’s north-east, where about 20 people assemble hundreds of FPV (first person view) drones, there is a new design. Under the frame of the familiar quadcopter is a cylinder, the size of a forearm. Coiled up inside is fibre optic cable, 10km (6 miles) or even 20km long, to create a wired kamikaze drone.

Capt Yuriy Fedorenko, the commander of a specialist drone unit, the Achilles regiment, says fibre optic drones were an experimental response to battlefield jamming and rapidly took off late last year. With no radio connection, they cannot be jammed, are difficult to detect and able to fly in ways conventional FPV drones cannot.

“If pilots are experienced, they can fly these drones very low and between the trees in a forest or tree line. If you are flying with a regular drone, the trees block the signal unless you have a re-transmitter close,” he observes. Where tree lined supply roads were thought safer, fibre optic drones have been able to get through.

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[-] bassomitron@lemmy.world 55 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Wouldn't the fiber lead directly back to the pilot, though? You'd have to constantly be moving locations, otherwise they could just follow the wire.

Edit: I know, I know, the more I've thought about it--and despite them actually proving it's possible to do as mentioned in the article--it's just not very practical to do in many situations. As one commenter mentioned below, after seeing pictures of some trees, numerous drones create a web among trees/bushes/etc. So tracing lines when drones are launched from multiple locations would be extremely difficult and they could even set up ambushed at certain points if they saw enemy scouts doing it.

[-] sirico@feddit.uk 42 points 1 week ago

It's real long, like miles of fairly small transparent cable.

[-] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 40 points 1 week ago

From the article :

There are examples of drone operators from earlier this year being able to trace the cables back to the positions from where they were launched and target the enemy crews. But if this technique was a successful one, fibre optic drones would have disappeared as soon as they appeared on the battlefield, when – from presidents to workshops – all the talk is of increasing numbers.

[-] nesc@lemmy.cafe 27 points 1 week ago

You won't be able to just follow the wire, it's millimeter thin and extremely light. And drone operators need to constantly move anyway.

[-] cybersin@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago

And drone operators need to constantly move anyway.

It's probably not required if not using RF.

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[-] tux7350@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago

This is not new tech. We have been using wires like this in the battlefield since the 70's. I was a TOW gunner and shot plenty of missiles that have a wire like this drone. Except, ya know it's a missile and it moves significantly faster. TOW stands for Tube launched Opitically Wire guided missile.

Ask away if you wanna know anything about em.

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[-] Flexaris@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 1 week ago

If they're up to 20 km it could take you a while and they're very small and difficult to see, possibly going through difficult terrain.

[-] BluescreenOfDeath@lemmy.world 23 points 1 week ago

Plus, by the time you find the end, the crew can have moved on.

You could also exploit that to ambush the people trying to follow the cable farther into enemy territory.

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[-] flightyhobler@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

Perhaps they just pull it back real fast 😆

[-] LMDNW@lemm.ee 12 points 1 week ago

I was thinking the same thing! If it’s a super small cable (1mm diameter) couldn’t they have some sort of auto winch that pulled the line back after detonation? I’m not an engineer, so I’d obviously defer to an expert on this.

Primary issues I can see with retrieval are tangling/kinking and re-spooling/splicing. The fibers are insanely thin and the drones are flying in between trees, not exactly a smooth path for retrieval.

I saw a picture a few weeks ago of a field in Ukraine, taken from amongst an adjacent patch of trees, and it just looks like spiderwebs. Dozens and dozens of fine spider web strands, each one delivering a drone into the meat grinder. Terrible, beautiful, and such a fucking waste.

[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

What are all those glass fibers going to do to an area after the war ends? That stuff won't decompose.

[-] Voldemort@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

Fibre glass is essentially silica fibres with a trace amount of metal to make the fibre glass act the way it does. Guess what sand is also made of, silica with trace amounts of impurities. So when they break down it'll just be sand in the end. Not 'decomposable' but quite friendly to the environment still.

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[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 7 points 1 week ago

Same can be said for the landmines that the Russian are hiding in Ukrainian soil

[-] qyron@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 week ago

I live in an area where fires are frequent and aerial cables plentiful.

Once in a while, a crew comes around and picks up all the broken cable. But considering these are mostly glass, non insulated cables, I'd risk it just becomes another inert part of the soil.

Hopefully, there will be a retrieval plan, after all the madness ends.

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[-] nesc@lemmy.cafe 6 points 1 week ago
  1. wire spool is located on the drone itself not the other way around
  2. You can't pull it back it's all tangled up
  3. Wires are very hard to see
[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 week ago

Not just that but the pilot can be on the other side of the world from wherever the fiber leads out.

Most likely the fiber is coming out of a bunker that just has some switches and a TACLANE or something similar. Doesn't take much infra...you need that, some sort of low-latency network connection, and room for drones to take off.

Once it's set up, the site can be unmanned. Hell they can rig it to blow itself up after the mission is complete, so that nothing can be recovered from the infra if it's found.

For that matter, most of the drones flight path could be pre- programmed...the pilot only there as a contingency. Doing that, one operator could control several drones simultaneously.

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[-] Ziggurat@jlai.lu 50 points 1 week ago

This kind of idea is between genius and stupid.

It's a cheap an easy solution to a lot of problem, and it sounds like the kind of proposal an intern would do

[-] MBech@feddit.dk 39 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Drone manufacturer: "We're having trouble with our drones getting jammed, any ideas?"

Intern: "I always use CAT6 for my pc"

Drone manufacturer: "You goddamn genius!"

[-] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 25 points 1 week ago

Kids these days relying on wireless everything and don't realize the security and reliability of a wired connection.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago

It's neither, they're spare wire reels for older tow missiles which were wired for the same reason.

[-] Ziggurat@jlai.lu 7 points 1 week ago

TIL thanks,

I heard about wired torpedo but didn't know it was also a thing for missiles

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

Yep, still used in combat too and chances are you've seen a video and just didn't know.

Anytime you see a video filmed from behind a missile and it keeps making smingly random swirling jinking movements it's likely to be a tow missile.

https://youtu.be/IsOHo0oAc0c

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[-] x00z@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago

This has been going on for a few months now. Why is this a "new threat" ?

There have even already been battlefield videos where you see tons of fibre optic in the air.

[-] gnutrino@programming.dev 25 points 1 week ago

On the scale of human warfare, "a few months" is pretty new. Frankly, its fairly new on the timescale of the Ukraine war at this point.

[-] Drempire@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

What does that look like? Can't imagine what tons of fiber in the air looks like, do you have a video you can share with the rest of the class

[-] x00z@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago
[-] noughtnaut@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Imagine walking into a spider's web, and you couldn't just wipe it off your face.

It's a minor concern when a nation's existence is on the line, but I do wonder how all those wires will affect the fauna and environment.

[-] x00z@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

I do wonder how all those wires will affect the fauna and environment.

I have actually no idea what the effects would be here. But when this land gets reclaimed by Ukraine they'll need to clean it up regardless. There's mines and other explosives, burned out cars, and even dead bodies to clear.

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[-] GroundedGator@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago

Next evolution, carrier drones. Larger fiber drones that carry smaller radio drones and can also act as a repeater when needed.

[-] madsen@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

"Carrier has arrived."

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[-] Tiger_Man_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 1 week ago

Another proof that wired connections are superior

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[-] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 18 points 1 week ago

So basically we need a REALLY big wall

[-] Kolanaki@pawb.social 9 points 1 week ago

Multiphasic drones capable of passing through solid material are next!

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[-] untakenusername@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 week ago

this sounds so stupid but it might work

[-] perestroika@lemm.ee 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I build some (they aren't in Ukrainian hands yet, but will be - if they want them, because they're advancing super fast and could be many steps ahead). There is no "might", they work.

10 kilometers of fiber weighs 1.5 kg, less if you buy fancier kinds of fiber. A drone with 10-inch props lifts this without problems. You can bend the fiber around a pencil and only experience degraded signal. Only a 90-degree bend will make it snap. In the war zone, landscapes after some battles already resemble "attack of the spiders" movies.

In peace time, the challenge is finding a farmer who allows using their field to test this. Promising to reel everything in and pay for damaged crops goes a long way, though. But sea is an even better idea - easier to reel it back.

P.S.

I am quite grateful to an Ukrainian radio amateur, Serhii "Flash" Beskrestnov. He published info about the early Russian models that were found crashed, and made a big deal about it, as one should. People listened to him and took him seriously, and started developing them ASAP.

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[-] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Like torpedos used to do.

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[-] Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

Huh, I remember one of the few draw backs of fiber optic cables being that you had to be very careful with them, because bending them could easily cause them to crack and no longer work. I'm guessing that must no longer be an issue!

[-] theit8514@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

The fiber we use at our datacenter is quite flexible but still gets damaged if you bend it too far. To roll it like they describe you would still want to have a fairly large drum (probably like 3-4 inches in diameter) which would make it pretty bulky for a small drone.

[-] gnutrino@programming.dev 9 points 1 week ago

They literally describe it as "the size of a forearm" so that about tracks with 3-4 inches diameter.

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[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago

"Secret workshop"? Why are they talking openly to the press then?

[-] gnutrino@programming.dev 28 points 1 week ago

Because the secret is where it is, not that it exists.

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[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 week ago

Those news are already not so new any more. We've had reports of those two months ago.

Since fiber optic wire guided missiles exist it's not that much of a leak to think it should work with drones too, so long as the weight works out.

Fiber is really really thin. 9 micrometer core diameter and 125 micrometer cladding diameter (incl core). The 10 km spools we use in our lab for network equipment testing are boxes of only like 20x20x10cm, and those aren't optimized to be extra small with bend insensitive fiber. I can totally believe the 1.2-1.4 kg for 10 km in the article.

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this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
398 points (98.1% liked)

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