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[-] NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org 54 points 2 weeks ago
[-] Moonweedbaddegrasse@lemmy.world 43 points 2 weeks ago

Wellllll... If it hadn't been for Germany, Israel probably wouldn't exist.....

[-] shiroininja@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago
[-] IndiBrony@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

They're technically correct, which is the best kind of correct 👍

[-] Lumidaub@feddit.org 5 points 2 weeks ago
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[-] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago

If you are arguing like that we can also find the blame for WW2 by whatever unified the German Reich in the first place. It's a silly way to pass blame.

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[-] kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone 30 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Germany is the second largest provider of weapons to Israel, and a huge longtime consumer of Russian gas, this is a tonedeaf as hell meme.

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[-] MetalMachine@feddit.nl 27 points 2 weeks ago

They are complicit in supporting and arming Israel as well as supporting the genocide.

[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)
[-] Pacattack57@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Thank you lmao I was like why is there an American flag

[-] wpb@lemmy.world 27 points 2 weeks ago

They're highly complicit in Israel's actions.

Germany has great PR, it plays itself as such a progressive nation free of hate or want. It’s bullshit when you look beyond the surface

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[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 25 points 2 weeks ago

Germany is Europe's biggest supporter of Israel.

The biggest issue is that we, the EU, are on the side of Germany now. And their track record with world wars isn't great.

[-] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

To be fair to the Germans, I can understand how the Holocaust is integrated into them as a kind of "original sin". What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself.

The problem is that "nothing of the sort" has translated into "opposing Jews in any way". It seems to me like Germany sees itself as bound to support Jews (and thereby the Jewish state Israel) no matter what in order to "atone for their sins", and I can understand that. However, right now, Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we've seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust. It's very hard for Germany to oppose Israel without tickling a part of their history that they've done a laudable job at condemning.

What Germany needs now, is to separate their history from their current politics. I understand that it's difficult, and I don't have an answer to how it should be done, but it needs to happen, lest the same crimes are committed again.

[-] p3n@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we’ve seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust.

I don't say this to excuse anything Israel is doing, but this is gross recency bias that is glossing over numerous genocides that have occurred since the Holocaust, including:

Not technically genocides, but also worth mentioning in the same vein:

So ya, other than those events, this is the closest thing to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust.

[-] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

It's laudable of you to bring attention to these other atrocities. Without creating a "race to the bottom" regarding what was worse, I still want to point out that the horror of the Holocaust was not only in the number of killed.

I'm aware of a couple of the atrocities you mentioned, but as far as I'm aware, they don't carry the clinical state-sponsored efficiency that is a hallmark of the Holocaust. When I compare Gaza today to the holocaust, that's what I'm comparing, rather than the number of killed. It's about the way Isreal has decided to wipe out the population of Gaza, and systematically does so completely unhindered.

[-] p3n@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

To be clear, aside from the part I quoted, I agreed with everything else in your post and thought it was an interesting take, but again I have to take issue with this:

as far as I’m aware, they don’t carry the clinical state-sponsored efficiency that is a hallmark of the Holocaust.

I'm not going to analyze every single atrocity since 1945, but the Cambodian genocide was certainly state-sponsored, efficient, and horrific:

"20,000 people passed through the Security Prison 21, one of the 196 prisons the Khmer Rouge operated,[4][28] and only seven adults survived.[29]"

"The executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, the executions were often carried out using poison or improvised weapons such as sharpened bamboo sticks, hammers, machetes and axes.[6] ... In some cases the children and infants of adult victims were killed by having their heads bashed against the trunks of Chankiri trees, and then were thrown into the pits alongside their parents. The rationale was "to stop them growing up and taking revenge for their parents' deaths."

"People were imprisoned and tortured merely on suspicion of opposing the regime or because other prisoners gave their names under torture. Whole families (including women and children) ended up in prisons and were tortured because the Khmer Rouge feared that if they did not do this, their intended victims' relatives would seek revenge. Pol Pot said, "if you want to kill the grass, you also have to kill the roots".[169]"

"There are many accounts of torture in both the Security Prison 21 records and the documents of the trial; as told by the survivor Bou Meng in his book (written by Huy Vannak), tortures were so atrocious and heinous that the prisoners tried in every way to commit suicide, even using spoons, and their hands were constantly tied behind their back to prevent them from committing suicide "

"all medical experiments were systematically conducted without proper anesthetics.[173] A medic who worked inside S-21 said that a 17-year-old girl had her throat slit and her abdomen pierced before being beaten and put into water for an entire night. This procedure was repeated many times and carried out without anesthetics.[174] In a hospital of Kampong Cham province, child medics cut out the intestines of a living non-consenting person and joined their ends to study the healing process. The patient died after three days due to the "operation".[173]"

"Twenty-six-year-old John D. Dewhirst, a British tourist, was one of the youngest foreigners to die in the prison.[17] He was sailing with his New Zealand companion, Kerry Hamill, and their Canadian friend Stuart Glass when their boat drifted into Cambodian territory and was intercepted by Khmer patrol boats on August 13, 1978. Glass was killed during the arrest, while Dewhirst and Hamill were captured, blindfolded, and taken to shore. Both were executed after having been tortured for several months at Tuol Sleng. Witnesses reported that a foreigner was burned alive; initially, it was suggested that this might have been John Dewhirst, but a survivor would later identify Kerry Hamill as the victim of this particular act of brutality."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuol_Sleng_Genocide_Museum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_Fields

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 7 points 2 weeks ago

Germany doesnt care about Jews. The moment Jews are not fitting the box Germany designed for them by not blindly supporting Israel, those Jews are facing the same repressions like anyone else who challenges Germanies blind support for Israel.

German politics, media and parts of civil society think that blind support of Israel is serving certain interests of Germany and they do it purely for these reasons. In particular we see it being used to justify racist discrimination against Arabs and other "brown" people and to crack down with increasing authoritarianism on leftist and ecological political positions.

Like Israeli society they have deluded themselves into thinking that they know better than everyone else in the world what is right and wrong and fail to see, how this actually harms Germany tremendously.

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[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 21 points 2 weeks ago

Israel: we wouldn't have started it without Germany's security guarantees!

[-] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

They also might not be a zionist county. Hard to say what things would look like now if dumbassery 1 & 2 hadn't occurred.

[-] pm_me_weird_thoughts@lemm.ee 19 points 1 week ago

Germany is, after U.S, the most pro Israel country of all countries

[-] febra@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

Except Germany keeps delivering weapons to Israel, gives them diplomatic and political coverage, and apparently even has planes in the air to support Israeli fighter jets in their attacks on Iran.

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[-] tresspass@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

I'd find Germany less responsible for WWIII if maybe they ya know didn't support a genocidal terrorist ethnostate at the expense of domestically suppressing speech calling out that foreign policy, but I guess it just be like that sometimes

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[-] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

Well if they didn't genocide all those millions of innocent Jews 80 years ago, western countries wouldn't accept the invasion and genocide in Palestine over the last decades

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https://xcancel.com/josemendes2/status/1934190961719972153#m

Except we are once again fighting on the side of genocide.

[-] Mangoholic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago

Not directly, but the government supported getting there.

[-] benjaminb@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 weeks ago

Germans when they realise WW2 was caused by an man from Austria

Germans when they realise WW1 was caused by the assassination of the archduke of Austria and the subsequent declaration of war from Austria-Hungary on Serbia.

You could say Austria is responsible, but Hitler was in Germany, so WW2 is kinda our problem…

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[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 7 points 2 weeks ago

Do people actually think the middle east conflict will start ww3?

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 11 points 2 weeks ago

Israel is currently attacking Iranian Oil and Gas.

Iran could retaliate by closing the Persian Gulf, where 20% of global Oil and Gas shipping goes through and to weaken US, UK and other support for Israel. This could bring these countries onto the plan, but also Israels allies UAE and Saudi Arabia. When more countries join against Iran, China could feel threatened, or see an opportunity in the distraction, Russia will certainly ramp up its efforts in Ukraine. The economic fallout of the explosion in oil and gas prices globally could tip over other conflicts into wars.

This can definitely spiral into another world war. Remember that WW1 was caused by serbian seperatists assasinating the austrio-hungarian crown prince.

[-] Denjin@lemmings.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

WW2 started as a series of separate, regional conflicts that gradually pushed the world to a major war. Japan in China, Italy in Africa, Germany in Central and Eastern Europe.

The world didn't just wake up on Sept 1st 1939 and say: I guess we at war now. These things always start this way and spiral out of control.

Even the world's first global conflict, the War of Spanish Succession started with French and Austria fighting over the crown of Spain but various other European powers were dragged in as various regional conflicts coalesced into a major war.

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[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 4 points 2 weeks ago

Iran can draw more aggro if they want but theyre getting pretty fucked as is and probably dont want anymore countries pilling on.

China doesnt care about iran and theyre winning by not being involved while the other super powers get bogged down in war and internal conflict.

Russia doesnt have anything left to increase vs Ukraine unless it goes nuclear.

WW1 was started because both Austria-hungry and Germany (partly) wanted a war. The assassination was the excuse and not the reason.

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[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 weeks ago

They sure are trying their hardest to help start it though

[-] xiwi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago

They have a big share in the current state of affairs, whether it is the genocide of the Palestinian people or the complete failure of Europe. the German state hasn't changed a fucking bit

[-] petersr@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

What is meant by "complete failure of Europe"?

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[-] KurtVonnegut@mander.xyz 3 points 2 weeks ago

Aren't Trumps ancestors from Germany?

[-] 007ace@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago

Donald Drumpf would be his name if I remember John Oliver correctly.

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this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2025
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