Mamdani folks. Haven't felt this thing called hope in forever (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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Useful Idiots with Katie Halper and Aaron Maté Full episode: Why Trump Threatened to DEPORT Zohran Mamdani

Episode webpage: https://www.usefulidiotspodcast.com/p/full-episode-why-trump-threatened

Media file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/167499502/8fc2ca2de5fcfdf45dbb4de35b7c6048.mp3?token=561b3d6b-6873-409d-9183-542457c8a7f8

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[-] Tormato@hexbear.net 37 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Can’t believe I’m allowing myself to believe in electoral politics again. Because of this.

But the difference this time…no really, Zohran’s movement, aligned with DSA and consisting of over 50k canvassers (which is staggering), is the thing that really makes me want to help push this over the top.

With a movement behind you comes leverage.

Thing is, he must be willing to mobilize it for massive rallies that will be needed to get the agenda across.

And, we have to make the billionaire scumbags fear us. And that means humongous Tax The Rich rallies.

But most effectively I think DSA must mobilize rallies outside of the meeting Zohran will have with “business leaders,” the NYPD, etc. Especially that those Wall Street criminals and oligarchs think they can siphon him off, basically tell him who’s boss. When they say or imply that he should be able to say, “look out the window down into the street; there are 20,000 people down there. They’re boss!”

They need to know We Are Many.

It really does seem like an incredible opportunity to finally realize some real socialism in this hellhole country.

[-] lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 3 weeks ago

40,000 people volunteered and canvassed for Zorhan. Tie that with a bow. We are witnessing a pretty collosal shift fam

[-] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 3 weeks ago

What needs to happen now is you need to find the most willing to organize ones of that group, and get them into more structured organizations while the iron is hot. If theyre allowed to think oh we won the election time to go home and think everythings over then it's pointless. But if you can get some of them to join the Socialist Rifle Organization, and get weapons training, or to transition to organizing with the PSL then that has real value.

Electoral campigns are temporary. They are good at getting a lot of people involved because its socially acceptable to do electoralism, but after the elections they evaporate. It's not a vehicle for sustained revolutionairy action. You need a vanguard party for that. So the goal should be to take the people who are pulled in by the electoral campaign and direct them to permanent political movements. Eventually if you have a lot of decently sized groups that are permanent and revolutionary they can unite into a proper vanguard party.

[-] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 3 points 3 weeks ago

What needs to happen now is you need to find the most willing to organize ones of that group, and get them into more structured organizations while the iron is hot.

The good news is that this is the baseline understanding of every organizer in the DSA. Don't make the mistakes of Occupy, build permament structured organizations.

[-] sewer_rat_420@hexbear.net 13 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Great way to look at it...the mass movement with a solid purpose is heartening. I hope this is the first of many more such campaigns. Keep it going and eventually you got Kansan city councils seizing the wealth of the rich at gunpoint

[-] lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 weeks ago

The mental image you have painted in my mind is quite pleasant

[-] sewer_rat_420@hexbear.net 10 points 3 weeks ago

I saw a meme this morning of a kid pissing on the 4th of July. The sort of thing a chud would paste on his lifted truck except replace 4th of July with pronouns or whatever. Made me think of every lifted truck I saw today (went downtown to a ball game) as a revolutionary in some future. I mean, a good portion of the revolutionary masses will inevitably be of that former maga type

[-] lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah well, we're in an information war and unfortunately a lot of good meaning folks get tricked into supporting the slave owners. But take heart! We got each other we got the dirtbag left we got the guillotine

[-] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 15 points 3 weeks ago

Does anyone know what strategy if any he/they have to build up other leadership?

My observations are that having everything centered around one person has been the death of various Hopeful social democratic moments before. Because the Main Guy turncoats, caves in, or is assassinated (literally or socially). I think there has been lots of chat here about the benefits of replaceable leadership as seen in the middle east. Otherwise everything is too vulnerable to just 1 person.

This guy does seem to be a competent, principled politician with a backbone. Assuming nothing goes wrong, he ought to be duplicated in other places and other levels of government. Assuming something does go wrong, his replacement should be at hand.

Is this project all a personality thing around the individual? Or is it being done more sustainably?

[-] lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

He's DSA so there is an infrastructure behind his campaign. And it cant be understated how threatening his victory is to the oligopoly. Of course, as a proud member of the PSL I'm interested in forwarding candidates that are slightly more radical but if DSA can grab some wins, it shifts the Overton window for all of us

[-] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 10 points 3 weeks ago

Since commenting I listened to the podcast (the truncated version from their RSS feed). Something I would like to know more about: they mentioned that at some point, he said he would only continue his run if he was endorsed by the DSA. It sounded like endorsement wasn't a certainty. He wasn't sure if they would approve him. There was also some discussion about how nobody thought a leftist could win such a big prize, that it would just be embarrassing to suffer yet another loss. So some people in DSA were at least against it for that reason; they wanted to focus on smaller and more obtainable goals.

As I understood it, he got going, then approached DSA for an endorsement. Rather than being "sent" by DSA which is sort of how I had heard it before. I don't know if his candidacy being contingent on DSA endorsement was due to a political conviction about organization, or needing logistical backing. How responsible was DSA for these 40k canvassers? I assume they were not just in a position to muster a force like that off the bat. But it could be that they were key in recruitment/training. Training 40k people to not make total assess of themselves is very impressive.

Sometimes politicians are members of all sorts of groups, more like a paper membership to show affiliation. I think in this case it's more active. Is there any mechanism of accountability in place here? If Mamdani is elected mayor and he does something totally contrary to the DSA, what do they do about it? Does he plan to consult them when he's in power? Will they have any influence?

Also what's it like to be in the NY DSA right now? Does everyone in NYC know about DSA and that he is an active member? is DSA recruiting from the 40k canvassers? Are new people showing up to their meetings? And how many of them are spies sent by Bill Ackman?

it shifts the Overton window for all of us

It's nice to think of the Overton window as something other than a euphemism for normalizing fascism.

[-] lemmyseizethemeans@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 3 weeks ago

I think it's a genuine movement. I want to believe the fascist right can't win forever, that people will rise up and chant def 2 da eye dee eff. We absolutely need to organize unionize and strike FAM that is the only way

[-] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 4 points 3 weeks ago

There's no way NYC-DSA wasn't recruiting from the volunteer pool and seeing an increase in meeting turnout during the campaign. Idk how many and how much of a priority it was though.

And how many of them are spies sent by Bill Ackman?

I'd assume NYC-DSA already has spies running surveillance for the NYPD already. Its only wreckers/saboteurs trying to get into leadership positions that you have to worry about.

[-] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 2 points 3 weeks ago

In the Jacobin podcast interview with DSA they briefly said their signups were increased but the way they said the numbers was a bit unclear to me. Maybe it doubled? Fair to assume many/most of those people joined because they were involved in political activity, already had experience, and are looking for more. On the other hand they might also be fairweather joining due to a specific successful project.

But I didn't get the impression that recruitment was a big motivation. Not that emphasizing it would have been a good idea to whatever extent it was the case.

[-] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 11 points 3 weeks ago

he's put out some videos explaining the strategy he used to win so he's already ahead of campaign obama

[-] duderium@hexbear.net 11 points 3 weeks ago

Mamdani just tweeted that America is a beautiful country. Are we really going through this AOC/Bernie shit again?

[-] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Best case scenario is Red Vienna, but I think that's unlikely. Nevertheless this IS a win, and the reaction of those in power is heartening. They're frightened and have so much less social capital than they did in 2000.

I know i know he's no communist, but we can throw rocks at social democrats when we're in a position to do so.

[-] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 10 points 3 weeks ago

Heh, don't you know that having any sort of optimism is actually just liberalism? smuglord

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 8 points 3 weeks ago

Cautious optimism is the highest stage of liberalism

[-] jUzzo6@hexbear.net 10 points 3 weeks ago

There are only two outcomes:

He will be Corbyned, probably even before election
He will “move to center” AOC style to stay in politics

Now this is not reason to do nothing and resign yourself, but you have to understand that in capitalism you let yourself coopted or get crushed. It is no coincidence that all rappers focusing on social problems are dead, only moneybitchezgangsta types are left.