Actual leftists have always been pro gun though...
Yes, Karl Marx wrote:
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary."
"To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party [bourgeois], the workers must be armed and organized."
This is going over a lot better than when I said it, in progressivepolitics@lemmy.world no less. What a difference a month makes these days, I suppose.
I would fuck with that sub Lemmy. I got into an argument and they deleted every single comment I made in another separate post, even though it was at +14. Idk if they're tankies or punks, but they both quacking to me.
You have 16 upvotes there though.
Followed shortly after by:
The former Soviet Union established gun control in 1929 and as a result, Stalin’s government killed 40 million Soviets. This is a clear example of how gun control can be used to oppress a population and take away their right to self-defense.
And then they call everyone else revisionist
Like, I'm all for gun laws. But unfortunately a lot of crazy shit is legal, and a lot of people are crazy.
Prepare for the world you live in, not what you think it should be like.
Prepare for the world you live in, not what you think it should be like.
That is an amazing way of wording a sentiment I've had for a long time
If you go far enough left, you get your guns back.
Sick of the constant, "Where my 2A people at?!" around here. I am right fucking here, but I'm not in much of a position to mount a personal assault on Washington DC. All I can reasonably do is defend my immigrant wife and our home if it comes to that.
FFS, some of these people even question self-defense. "They'll just kill you, moron!" Yeah, well that was on the table anyway.
And if any gun-grabbers think the cops and ICE and politicians are fascist enough as-is, imagine how they would be acting if they could kick down doors with full impunity and zero fear. Yeah, the local cops could get a squad of 20 and take this house apart. But somebody's getting hurt. I guarantee it.
Here's an interesting thought, let's see how this plays out. Florida is red enough ATM, governor and state Congress. Why haven't they passed open-carry legislation? Why isn't it even under discussion? Think they'll make it happen?
I'll give you three guesses, but you're only going to need one. Fuck no they will not legislate open carry because men like me will be at every protest with an AR-15 on my shoulder and a Colt .45 in my belt.
It's honestly crazy that we have the "right" to bear arms and the "right" to protest, but half the country cannot protest while bearing arms. Meanwhile, police are shooting people's eyes out and trampling them with horses.
Or burning them alive in houses cause they (the cops) throw flashbangs without thinking.
And if any gun-grabbers think the cops and ICE and politicians are fascist enough as-is, imagine how they would be acting if they could kick down doors with full impunity and zero fear. Yeah, the local cops could get a squad of 20 and take this house apart. But somebody's getting hurt. I guarantee it.
And there's the real case for private ownership.
If you have the choice of being disappeared and killed...or being disappeared and killed while taking a few of them with you, definitely choose the latter.
It won't help you, but if you do it, your neighbor does it, and the next 10, 20...50 people do it, eventually two things are going to happen: if it's local forces, they're gonna start needing help, and if it's not local, it forces those powers into a more difficult decision of having to either get more overt with their fascism or backing off. It's not ideal but that's pretty much the options you have.
If they want to do all the shitty fascist things, don't let them do it easily and for free. The higher ups might not care, but that local cop in the red hat might start to think twice when "his" government keeps asking him to haul away people, and each time, another of his friends goes down. If not from a place of shifting world view, then maybe from self preservation.
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”
As a Canadian I’ve always found that even left Americans defend gun rights, it’s weird. But I guess if you’re born and raised in that culture it’s just normal to have such easy access to guns
if I lived almost anywhere else I wouldn't. NZ voted away their rights recently and I respect that. Japan probably should have thought it through a little more. but America is insano-country. legal corruption, the wealthy using indirect forms of violence, direct violence from the police. it's the kind of conditions that require communities to build ways of defending themselves. also the people in power want us unarmed for different reasons than you want to be unarmed.
I think a lot of us confuse the tool capacity (hunting, self-defense) with actual "safety" and the powers that be in the government let the gun rights argument continue so that people keep wasting money on arms and ammunition, and the businesses lobbying those in charge get to keep selling generally unregulated or underegulated.
US people ☕️
Look how black panthers existence changed many laws in carry permits, and you understand why both sides needs to be pro-guns
Leftists have always been pro gun. There's just not that many leftists. It's the Democrats and neoliberals who think only Trump and his government should have guns.
Been around guns my whole life. Shot them, loaded them, cleaned them, but IV never owned one myself. Mostly for a lack of wanting. But now seems a good time to have my own for better or worse.
Girlfriend really don't want me to have it tho
Super unrelated but anyone ever hear the song John Brown's Body? Lovely ditty!
I thought leftists are always pro-gun, while its the liberals (which includes those progressives in the US Democratic party) are always against guns.
I always felt like a minority in politics. I grew more and more supportative of egalitarian policies as a I grew older, coming to that conclusion from both logics (I wouldn't want to be treated that way), and also from experience as a racial minority.
But I've literally always been pro-gun since the moment the gun topic came up in school.
Which just leaves me in a very confused position when I learned that out of the two big parties (those that can actually win an election), the party I agree more with opposes guns. I just had a mini-identity crisis.
So while I do vote for democrats, I do so begrudgingly, because there is just no viable left-of-center pro-gun party. Every time they say "gun control" on an election year, I just facepalm, like c'mon just drop the issue from the party platform and win a lot more elections, the time to debate guns was 1789, now its kinda too late, cats out of the bag.
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"
-Karl Marx
I disagree with Stalinism and Maoism, but Marx had great ideas, but sadly people just did a horrible interpretation/implementations of it and used communist/socialist aesthetics to justify their authoritatianism and never actually doing any real egalitarian stuff.
I don't believe in the horse shoe theory except when it comes to gun owners larping about rising up against the government.
Are you talking about people in the USA or people elsewhere in the world? The USA is always "special" when it comes to matters like this.
It's definitely not just an American thing.
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary." -Karl Marx
America does have a "unique" culture around guns, but that's not all that prevalent on the left. What's driving interest in guns is the sad fact that we might need to use them.
The thought process that "we might need to use them" is evidence that the left in America does think about guns differently than the rest of the world.
You should mention that that was Karl Marx before the US civil war. Not Karl Marx in an age where drone-based warfare is common.
The potential to need to use guns is a statement of fact. The alternative of counting on law and order to correct the overreach of a fascist cop is no longer valid. When people start getting disappeared without due process, that changes the calculus entirely.
I've got no clue what drones have to do with this. That's just one more threat of extrajudicial state violence we might very well have to face. I'd rather try to defend myself from a drone with buck shot than a slingshot.
Because fascism is here and guns are a requirement now if we don't want to live in an authoritarian future.
I've been anti-gun my whole life. That's because I had some faith that our society was intelligent enough that we could create a less violent nation that respects democracy and votes our way into a better future.
Reality Check: That isn't our society.
Guns may not save us from authoritarianism, but not having them guarantees it. Wish it wasn't so, but it is.
If this train keeps derailing, they will end up coming for you. That's how fascism works. You want a way to defend yourself or not?
Anti-gun sentiment doesn't belong in a country where there are more firearms than people.
It's always been idiocy. Stupid democrats saying stupid things because they know their idiot followers will lap it up. It's been bullshit the entire time.
Ironically, leftists are more in line with the constitution with our reasoning around gun ownership. In my book, anyone who isn't happy with the lax state of gun laws is equally an ally and we shouldn't draw lines in the sand for no reason. You can both own a gun and want it to be harder for people who shouldn't get them to get them, it's almost as silly as the "you criticize society and yet you participate in society" argument.
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