430
Can't argue that. (mander.xyz)
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 118 points 1 week ago
[-] DonPiano@feddit.org 35 points 1 week ago

That's stupid, though. If you can explain 11% of the variance of some noisy phenomenon like cognitive and behavioral flexibility, that's noteworthy. They tested both linear and quadratic terms, and the quadratic one worked better in terms of prediction, and is also an expression of a meaningful theoretical model, rather than just throwing higher polynomials at it for the fun of it. Quadratic here also would coincide with some homogenizing mechanism at the two ends of the age distribution.

[-] toynbee@lemmy.world 43 points 1 week ago

Whether you're right or wrong, starting your argument with "that's stupid, though" is unlikely to convince many.

[-] TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 week ago

well it convinced me, but I'm stupid and already made up my mind that I wanted to see a reply like that

[-] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 week ago

That's stupid though. People should change their minds when better information is presented regardless of tone!

[-] DonPiano@feddit.org 10 points 1 week ago

Maybe, yeah, but I kinda get annoyed at this kinda dismissiveness - it's a type of vague anti-science or something like that. Like.. Sure, overfitting is a potential issue, but the answer to that isn't to never fit any curve when data is noisy, it is (among other things) to build solid theories and good tests thereof. A lot of interesting stuff, especially behavioral things, is noisy and you can't expect to always have relationships that are simple enough to see.

You're probably right. But also, I was annoyed, not trying to convince. Maybe not the best place to post from. :)

[-] toynbee@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Your frustration is understandable, but yeah, I agree with the last sentence of your post.

I will acknowledge, in this case, that your post certainly drew engagement.

[-] TowardsTheFuture@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 week ago

Yet it’s one single sample, and possibly not a great one. Few things could cause the shape seen like sample selection of healthy people ignores a lot more of the 65+ community than the younger, and also stuff like those born around the 50’s have higher lead levels could cause more of a dip, or like… plenty of stuff. After some repetitions sure but even then… that’s 11% hell I could probably put in an exponential with a negative exponent and be as accurate or better.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] ddplf@szmer.info 84 points 1 week ago

Does that mean it is not true that it becomes harder to learn new things with age?

I'm 26 and I've been rushing gaining knowledge and experience very much so far for fear of just not being able to fit in much more once I reach certain age.

No I'm not virtue signaling, this is fucking stressful and I will be delighted to slow down a fuckton if that's true.

[-] StripedMonkey@lemmy.zip 139 points 1 week ago

From a completely unscientific but 'experienced' perspective I think the problem is that life just gets in the way as you get older, and you prioritize your own life rather than trying to learn.

Whether neuroplasticity means you can learn things later or not, the opportunity to learn things later just isn't there without effort.

Having a job, kids, a mortgage and no social obligation to learn in a structured and organized way probably impacts you more than anything neurological.

[-] Kayday@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago

I'd imagine it also has something to do with becoming less practiced at learning things.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

Yeah, get in what you want because in twenty years the greatest thing your brain will enjoy is not processing anything of consequence.

Could you learn cuneiform and gain a rich understanding of 18th Century Viennese intellectual culture, if you didn’t know anything about that before? Sure.

*burp* But then you’ll be like “ah, gotta bring in the trash cans and then I can sit.”

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] LillyPip@lemmy.ca 72 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As long as you continue to learn new things, then no, it doesn't become harder with age. In fact, studies show that people who are lifelong learners can actually increase their ability to learn as they age. Learning, for example, a foreign language in later years has been shown to be just as attainable as in childhood, and might even give some protection against dementia. Your brain can actually become more plastic as you age if you continuously push it to do so.

The idea that learning capacity naturally* diminishes with age seems to be a widely accepted myth (which may have roots in sociological and cultural biases), and the opposite may actually be true.

e: those biases and environmental stressors may also contribute to people becoming less able – or less prone – to try, though, and if you don't use it, you might lose that plasticity. So keep learning.

[-] blackbrook@mander.xyz 18 points 1 week ago

Well the 'myth' you speak of is based on the fact that the opposite of what you describe is also true. Those who lose any interest in learning new things become progressively more rigid and stuck in their mindset and become less and less likely to learn or adapt as they age. I suspect there are more people leaning towards that than lifelong learners, but I may just be a pessimist.

[-] LillyPip@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think the people who are lifelong learners don’t stand out to us as much, because they’re not pig-headed cunts. Thus the societal bias.

And perhaps I’m an optimist because all the elders in my family are the plastic sort (my 89 year old father still works as an aviation engineer and still builds his own computers, for instance).

Anyway, I was talking about potential, not statistics. e: and I mean it's psycho-social, not biological.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] WalterLego@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 week ago

I started doing Capoeira and learning Portuguese with 40 years. I am fluent in Portuguese now after three years. My Capoeira skills are still pretty basic, but I progress and for the first time in my life I feel like I really have a grasp on any kind of sports.

I also changed from marketing to IT last year and I am getting really good at what I do.

It helps if you have a reference system for your new knowledge. I studied computer science which helps in my new job and I had French in school which helps with Portuguese.

So don't worry. Keep learning, avoid stress and drugs and prioritize getting enough sleep. You'll be fine!

[-] TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub 11 points 1 week ago

I’ve seen (and experienced in my fifties) that age does affect the working of your mind. I’d compare it to sleep deprivation. You know, when you’re young and reckless and haven’t slept well for a week, maybe pulling all-nighters for fun? It affects your concentration, your reflexes, and your general memory.

Age is like a mild sleep deprivation that gets a little bit worse each decade. It takes effort to stay lucid.

[-] LillyPip@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I agree with you, but I wonder how much of this is that most of us are worked to our last nerve until we're at least 65, so many of us don't have the luxury to maintain our brain plasticity? Once we're 70ish, if we didn't have that opportunity when we were living hand-to-mouth, our brains are kind of set by that point.

We all have the potential, but not the opportunity until it's kind of too late? And then add that our society feeds us the equivalent of brain junk food for much of that time, rather than fostering continuing education...

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] DonPiano@feddit.org 7 points 1 week ago

Keep learning, and it'll stay easier than if you didn't. See if you can find changes for the structure of what you're learning so you don't get too ossified about that, either. Like, have a decade where you focus more on sciences, one more for arts, one more for languages, one more for understanding people who are very different from you.. Maybe a decade is too big a chunk, but you get the idea.

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 6 points 1 week ago

I find that I get smarter as I get older, as stupid stuff that held me back gets discarded. You do have less energy I hear, but even there I think a fit 50 year old would be more energetic than a lazy 25 year old? Obviously having kids is a huge energy drain, but that's not technically aging, just correlation rather than causation.

So anyway even if this graphic were true, it would be irrelevant as the major factor seems to me to be a willingness to learn, only after which raw ability would come into play.

In your case the adage that now is the time to learn is true, but not for any of the reasons mentioned above. Once you shift your perspective that the time for hard work is over and the time for personal play is at hand - to watch more TV, play games, hang out with friends, etc. - then it's incredibly hard (most people phrase that as "impossible") to ever go back to that college mindset of "it's study time, let's go!!!". That's not even just human nature, but rather the raw physics of inertia coupled with adaptation that lowers energy requirements that were evolutionarily built into our brains and bodies.

Discipline is a mindset that is mostly independent of age, except it trends towards older as those who have seen how it works first-hand now realize its value (coupled with individual survival of those who have more rather than less of it, i.e. the most reckless die the earliest in life), plus also younger as people listen and thus benefit from the accumulated wisdom of others.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Dasus@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Neural plasticity isn't exactly the same as learning but, yeah, there seems to be a thing around 27 where neural plasticity seems to plateau a bit.

But I'm wondering if that's more the effect than the cause. Perhaps it's because a lot of people, up until they're around 25-30, have a very quickly changing life. Schools are changing, jobs are changing, people are changing. But when you start to get into late twenties, early 30's, most people already have a routine of some sort. And it would seem logical to me that it could mean lowered neural plasticity.

And perhaps it could come just as well if you started having as much variance and stimulation as earlier in your life. Perhaps not as much.

But yeah I don't think there's any sort of biological limit that you just can't learn things anymore. Never too old.

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world 56 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

R^2^ = 0.11

Edit: tried with R2 but it didn't work. :(

Edit 02: thanks to @jaennaet for educating me on proper syntax.

[-] jaennaet@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 week ago

You have to surround the 2 with ^s:

R^2^ = 0.11

R^2^ = 0.11

Note that this'll bork if you put spaces between the carets: ^2 2^ gives you ^2 2^

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] Eheran@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago

guess the correlation, looks about like a solid 0.1. Whoever put that regression line in there is crazy, the confidence interval is insulting.

[-] Gladaed@feddit.org 11 points 1 week ago

Why does that fucking Thing require my Google account?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[-] Matriks404@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago

I am 29, and so far I didn't really see any mental decline, sometimes even the reverse - I become better at learning certain stuff. Although I am also more aware that I will never be on the level some very talented people are, but it's fine.

[-] Hazzard@lemmy.zip 16 points 1 week ago

I don't think this is neuroplasticity, as much as it is having a broader experience to bring to bear. I have so much knowledge and experience with a variety of things that I can apply and relate to new skills to learn things fairly quickly.

I also find there's a ceiling on my abilities, like you mentioned. I'm never going to learn something to the same depth as someone who learns it as a kid and carries it forwards, things just don't seem to sink deep into intuition and instinct like that, but I can certainly pick up something well enough to enjoy it and enjoy the process of improving at it. I love learning new skills and pushing myself, and I don't mind the idea that that's the way to age gracefully and stay sharp.

[-] martinb@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 week ago

I'm never going to learn something to the same depth as someone who learns it as a kid

Lack of time to study or research in my opinion

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Kage520@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Not sure about this. People told me I would not be able to learn piano as an adult, but after 5 years of playing 15 - 30 minutes per night I feel like I am about as good as a child or teenager who put in the same amount of time. I am starting to see how people can sight read at full speed (vs me for an intermediate piece I might be able to get 20% speed, with probably poor accuracy).

I think you might be comparing someone else's 20 - 25+ years of experience (eg, someone who has consistently played piano their whole life) to your ability to pick up a new skill from scratch. There is just a huge time sink for a brand new topic and it takes anyone a ton of time. So if you really wanted to pick up some theoretical physics or something, but are currently bad at math, it might take 15 years just to get to the beginning to really be one someone's level who... Started 15 years ago.

Unless I guess if there is unlearning time. Like the smarter every day video where they made a reverse turning bicycle that was impossible for people to use unless they spent forever relearning, vs his son who picked it up relatively easy. I think they had to unlearn what they knew so well.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] shaggyb@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Played a reflex-based video game against a teenager lately?

[-] working_bee@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 week ago

I feel like reflexes are different than learning. Motor control definitely gets worse over time.

[-] Sektor@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

Played a fiddle vs the Devil?

[-] Matriks404@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I don't really play competitive video games, because I have always seen them as waste of time, and I easily get angry,but recently I nearly did get all retroachievements for NES Terris (just one remaining), so I guess my reflexes are not horrible yet.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] ulterno@programming.dev 7 points 1 week ago

A lot of things are easier to learn when you have a base foundation.

Also, a lot of skills have interrelated mental pathways, so once you have enough exp with one, learning the other means, you are actually plasticising your brain, less than what you would have, had you learnt the other skill without knowing the first.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 week ago

I love that they put an error margin, which doesn't include 90 % of all the datapoints.

[-] DonPiano@feddit.org 16 points 1 week ago

That's how a standard error with normal-ish data works. The more data points for the estimation of a conditional mean you have, the fewer of the data point will be within it. For a normal distribution, the SE=SD/√N . Heck, you can even just calculate which proportion of the distribution you can expect to be within the 95% CI as a function of sample size. (Its a bit more complicated because of how probabilities factor into this, but for a large enough N it's fine)

For N=9, you'd expect 26% of data points within the 95% CI of the mean For N=16, 19% For 25, 16% For 100, 8% For 400, 4% Etc

Out of curiosity: What issue did you take with the error margin not including most data points?

[-] DonPiano@feddit.org 12 points 1 week ago

Oops, should have multiplied those intervals with 1.96, ao here again:

9 - 49%

16 - 38%

25 - 30%

100 -16%

400 - 8%

Absolute scattershot of datapoints

Nooo he's so cute, I can interpolate him

Bestie, stop

[-] DonPiano@feddit.org 14 points 1 week ago
[-] MissJinx@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

As a subject I cam confirm. No

[-] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 week ago

Goddamnit Taleb.

What is this, a black swan event you could not have predicted as being within the realm of possibility, and thus have no idea how to react?

God Damnit, Taleb.

load more comments (5 replies)

Currently 29. Noticed mental decline after concussions in my youth and a few years of heavy drinking. I don't fall on my head as much and I don't really drink anymore, but I'm not sure how much of what I've lost I'm going to get back.

[-] missfrizzle@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 1 week ago

I have no scientific basis for this, but my suspicion is that what you do with your brain is more important to cognition than whatever raw intelligence you start with. the more languages you study, the more music you play, the more subjects you study and skills you develop and hobbies you tinker with and deep conversations you have... you learn to learn, you learn to think, it all gets wired up and cross-connected and you become more than the sum of your parts.

how much decline is truly biological vs. being stuck in a rut?

also there's nootropics that could be helpful for concussion recovery/etc. but they haven't been too well-studied, there's many different ones with different sketchiness and sources aren't always trustworthy... but piracetam (iirc) is actually prescribed in the EU for recovery from brain injury, and it's fairly safe and well-studied. I'm not recommending it either way though.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2025
430 points (98.2% liked)

Science Memes

16896 readers
4222 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.



Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS