"Never believe the antisemites are unaware of the absurdity of their claims and so on and so forth etc. etc."

They've always known it's a genocide. For fascists, it's about demonstrating power over the out-groups. They know it's a genocide. You know it's a genocide. They'll say it's not just so they can flex their power to make it seem all-encompassing and suffocating. And liberals being liberals will cater to their charade because they think they can appease fascists into not being fascists.

Edit: I should clarify. The democrats themselves are just polite fascists at this point. By "liberals," I was referring to the suckdems thinking they can reform the system from the inside, like Mamdani. While they may get some concessions for people at home, they naively think there's a solution that doesn't involve the total destruction of the zionist entity and for the Israelis to return to Europe.

If it's a genocide then they're morally obligated to meaningfully resist it and libs are allergic to any politics beyond voting for one of the parties that is complicit in it

A significant portion of westerners don't think of Muslims and/or Arabs (if they even make the distinction) as human

Because denying that an atrocity is happening is part of getting away with it and being allowed to keep doing it. Anyone who denies that it's genocide is doing so because they want to be allowed to keep doing it and get away with it. They're not too stupid to recognize mass murder as mass murder, they want the murders to continue.

It might be a useful tactic if you ever run into one of these people is to ask what difference it makes if it was "just" a sparkling ethnic cleansing and totally not a genocide. Don't let liberals fight you on word definitions — redirect it back to the reality on the ground and the hundreds of thousands of children who have been martyred, and so many more whose humanity is being denied

Many people have made this argument before, so I'm not going to shittily try to re-articulate it. But basically the entire concept of what legally constitutes a genocide is one of those "good ideas" that was immediately co-opted by western powers to weaponize forever. I guess the most boiled down conclusion is "The problem isn't that they won't say a specific word. The problem is they deny everything which makes that word apply in the first place."

I guess that's where I fall on it and have for probably over a year. I don't really care if Bernie Sanders says "it's a genocide." What I care about much more is Sanders saying "Israel has a right to defend itself" and then never expanding on wtf that means. Israel has zero right morally or legally to do anything to Gaza or even be inside Gaza. The same applies to the West Bank. So what exactly does he mean with that phrase? Clearly he means it's "ok" to bomb children and civilians in Gaza as long as Israel says it's meant to kill Hamas militants. Well, not even militants. They just say "Hamas" broadly which includes medical professionals and everyone else. He will say that's them defending themselves. He just thinks they defended themselves... too much? There's no real logic there. Just a phrase that requires repeating even though it's for no one at this point. Zionists are done with your ass for even lightly criticizing their campaign of death. It doesn't matter if you offer them conditional cover for the atrocities. They require full acceptance or you're their enemy.

Although I hate making these statements, I will say quickly this is obviously not some sort of argument for genocide as a legal concept being thrown away. I'm just gesturing at part of the problem without offering much of a solution beyond I suppose "they should stop the political bullshit spin-jobs and just say the truth." I think it might be beneficial for Medhi, etc. to ask "is it a genocide?" one time. Then whether they say yes or no, keep probing. "At what point was it a genocide?" "Did Israel have any legal or moral right to do a single attack in Gaza?" "Is starving an entire population ever acceptable?" "Was the siege on Gaza for decades not an act of aggression on the entire population living there?"

I don't think someone calling it a genocide is enough I guess. I've seen many liberals cave and start calling it that. Yet they still remain very clear apologists for Israel and Zionism. They still hand wring and condemn Hamas. It's victim blaming to a crazy-ass magnitude that I've never really seen before.

I think they're really struggling to find that magical "out" for western imperialism broadly. Some way to condemn the evil Muslims but also say "well, this went too far." The more honest ones know there is no way to condemn Israel but also uphold US/western imperialism. They don't even attempt it. The others are stuck defending a genocide. They "condemn" it and then immediately explain why it has to happen. Which wraps back around into the obvious fact that if they're defending a genocide even a little bit then that indicates they don't believe one is happening or they think don't actually think genocide is unacceptable across the board. This is the contradiction liberals have had ripping their brains apart for years now. There's only two logical conclusions when they finally settle and I don't place much faith in them landing on condemning Israel without reservation and advocating for the dissolution of Israel.

They're still arguing because the liberal media has spent literally years not calling it a genocide and if the liberals stopped believing every word they heard on CNN/MSNBC et al, well, they wouldn't still be liberals

The UN commission has called it a genocide. It is a genocide. End of discussion.

Anyone saying otherwise should just be told to fuck off. They are wrong and there is absolutely no room for debate. Next topic.

On good faith, perhaps there is still genocide denial and ignorance because of a lack of central authority and unified presentation that spells it out to the incurious, the ignorant, and dissident on why the genocide in Gaza is genocide. The former two categories of people, the incurious and the ignorant, need to have it spelled out to them the way an undergraduate junior in a political science class would make their in-class presentation via PowerPoint.

A large part of the mainstream Western media does not quote Israeli media, government officials, and society and that is by design. They paint genocide dissidents as fringe, as foolish youth, while the media portrays proponents as disgraced victims of anti-Semitism.

Asking Why is it a genocide is obfuscated by lies and misdirection. People do eventually ask this question but it is slowed down by the media.

On bad faith, there is genocide denial because it is in the interest and modus operandi for a genocidal state and polity to escape justice by obfuscating the reality through denial, cover-up, and media mitigation. Because it is Israel that it is perpetuating genocide, they use anti-semitism as a shield from criticism and condemnation. Because Israel is also a US proxy in the Middle East to weaken its neighbors and contain China/Russia, it will get near unconditional support from the US and Europe.

Media figures don't press against the narrative of Washington or Jerusalem because they value their career and prestige more than they do reporting the truth or exposing corruption; they are courtiers in an imperial court not journalists holding power to account. Which is why the media only shifts narrative when it is safe to do so.

I mean, the media started going against Bush when it was safe to do so but were completely compliant during most of his administration to the point they were really just publishing White House press statements as fact!

A lot of the vocal ones denying it are ones actively doing or assisting in it. They don't want to self incriminate or bring about the hastening of charges of fellow conspirators.

Brace said it on a recent a trueanon but these people are basically talking to themselves, a lot of hasbara is aimed at potentially wavering Zionists

Outside of that my personal thoughts are I don't think anyone without a vested political/economic interest or who isn't completely ignorant/switched off is denying its a genocide any longer really, the scum just justify it 'they brought it in themselves, it would end if Hamas surrendered' bullshit

And of course there's always weirdos who dont believe their lying eyes

'Fortunately' it's so undeniable at this point that even western government's are beginning to acknowledge it, albeit all too slowly and without and real action to end it

Propaganda spewed by the imperialist media is a hell of a drug