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[-] Rachelhazideas@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

Pretending that small landlords and corporate landlords are the same is like saying your local grocer is as bad as Walmart.

Renting is an essential part of the housing market. Not everyone wants or can commit to home ownership and all it's unpredictable maintenance costs. A plumbing failure can be as cheap as $200 to fix or cost you $10,000+ for a full replacement and restoration from the biohazards of black water damage.

The reason why the housing market is fucked is because poor regulation allows corporate landlords to buy up tons of investment properties and control the housing costs and supply.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Renting is important to have available but it absolutely does not need to be at the level its at. The amount of people paying for someone else’s investment while wishing they could own something of their own is crazy and it’s insane that we’ve normalized that. And all the while they’re just hoping nothing goes wrong because it seems like even the “good” landlords are hit-or-miss when it comes to getting them to do literally anything. Mine’s usually pretty good but right now there’s a fucking hole in the foundation and getting them to properly address it is a hurdle I shouldn’t have to go through. In order for these buildings to be profitable the tenants need to not only pay for those issues you mentioned but now they’re also paying for someone else’s salary AND in the end that person gets to sell the building and keep all that money, too.

The reason the housing market is fucked in the US and Canada is becauss there are very few rent controls and a lot of the power sides with the landlords. In Montréal you have to be worried about going taking them to court because future landlords can just look up if you’ve ever done anything and deny you a place to live even if the problem was your current landlord is dogshit. Oh, and there’s a new law that’s around landlords being able to use necessary renovations as excuses to raise your rent! They have all the power and it doesn’t matter if they’re big or small, it’s a “business” that attracts the kind of people who don’t mind making easy money off of making you pay for their stuff.

Your landlord(probably) isn’t going to let you hit it because you’re glazing them on Lemmy. Stand up for yourself and others, even if you got lucky with a landlord who is considered good because they don’t throw a hissy fit when you ask them to do their fucking job.

[-] ranzispa@mander.xyz 2 points 1 week ago

Rented a flat from a family for 3 years. The flat had not been renewed in over 60 years, but I was alright with that. The flat had several problems, they never wanted to fix.

One day the electrical system starts going out over and over again, fuses would burn every few days. I had to tell them that in case of fire they'd be responsible for everything I had in the house before they agreed they should fix the electric system.

Since they were going to fix the electric system, they decided to do a bit more work and change the floor and a few things more. They wanted to increase the rent 50% to account for these improvements; even though that is illegal I accepted, since they were in fact improving the flat.

I had to move out for two months while the works were going on. One week before the end of the works, the flat was really not done yet. I asked several times whether it would be ready, because I'd need to find and accomodation in the meanwhile. I asked for a discount of half a month so that I could cover expenses and because nobody knew when they would actually complete the works.

The day before I was supposed to get back into the flat, they decided that I was posing way too many conditions and kicked me out. They decided to keep the safety deposit because a plastic floor old over 60 years had started cracking. 8 months later, they still have some boxes of stuff which is mine but never have time to meet me to give it back to me.

Time has passed and I still have to go to a lawyer, because I the meanwhile I had a bunch of trouble to solve. I'm sure I can win a trial against them, but even if I do win the trial I'll have gone through a bunch of trouble just to get my safety deposit back. I'll be doing it just because they need to fuck off, but still...

Now, most people renting places were I live are exactly like this. It is not big corporations, it people who got one or maybe a few flats on rent.

[-] Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Pretending that small landlords and corporate landlords are the same is like saying your local grocer is as bad as Walmart

Your comparison is valid, but it works against your interests. Your local grocer, as a business owner, is every bit against rising minimum wage as Walmart is: both of them see reduced profits when minimum wages are increased, so the class relations between them and their workers make them support anti-worker-rights policy.

In the same manner, your local landlord has every reason to be as opposed to measures such as rent caps or rent freezes as BlackRock.

Yes, rent should exist as an alternative to home ownership, but the housing for rent should be publicly owned and rented at maintenance-cost prices as has been done successfully in many socialist countries before which managed to abolish homelessness. As an example, by the 1970s rent in the Soviet Union costed about 3% of the monthly average income. Can't we do better than that 55 years of technological progress later?

[-] papertowels@mander.xyz 1 points 1 week ago

both of them see reduced profits when minimum wages are increased

But one doesn't have to act in the shareholders best interest.

My friends are renting in an apt from a mom and pop landlord who hasn't raised the price in years - they roughly play half of what market price is at this point.

So sure, the direction of Mom and pop landlords interests may be the same as a corporate landlords, but that are under much less pressure to leverage that.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 week ago

Whether or not a small business owner is for or against raising wages depends entirely on their own ethical compass, and whether that compass is strong enough to turn away from the temptation of extra profit. It's rare that individuals are so altruistic to be able to fully turn off the impulse for profit incentive and personal enrichment.

In contrast, a worker owned coop would not have that issue, as all workers would have equal incentive to raise wages as much as is reasonable while still maintaining the ability for the coop to thrive. Their individual ethics or moral compass wouldn't factor in nearly as much.

[-] papertowels@mander.xyz 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Worker owned coops equivalent for housing is a housing coop complex, which I believe is the most sustainable model of housing.

However, I'm not sure how that would apply to single detached houses.

EDIT: I didn't really address the original point.

The comparison was between Black Rock and Mom and pop landlords. You can bet your ass that black rock is trying to squeeze out profit. That statement does not hold as true for Mom and pops, because there are other reasons why they may be renting out.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago

In a theoretical socialist society, people would not be allowed to own multiple single family homes, only the one they're currently using, since renting an essential need creates a power imbalance.

As a stop-gap, all currently rented single family homes (as in renting the entire house, not just a room in a house), could be converted to rent-to-own contracts, so that at some point that power imbalance ends and the renter is no longer being exploited.

[-] papertowels@mander.xyz 1 points 1 week ago

That's all well and good, but how likely is that to actually happen?

The original commenters point was that corporate landlords are driven only by profit as they buy up rental property everywhere. Even preventing that is highly unlikely, if we're being honest, but it is far more likely to happen than all rented houses being forcibly turned to rent to own contracts.

We all want the same thing, but there's a tradeoff between grandiose ideals and feasibility. It does not seem wrong to support pushes for less radical but more realistic methods of improving housing if your goal is to improve housing.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

None of what I suggested is feasible to achieve within a political framework that is ultimately captured by capital. A handful of small particularly ethical landlords may support reform, but most will not, and the bigger corporate landlords will actively fight it with millions of dollars in lobbying, which the politicians have proven time and time again they are only too willing to accept.

Edit: It will take renters standing up, creating tenant unions, and engaging in direct action to cause real change.

[-] papertowels@mander.xyz 2 points 1 week ago

Agree. We have a few housing coops in town and I recommend them to everyone I know.

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Who maintains the homes that no one is living in?

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 week ago

Could you elaborate what you mean?

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Sure.

If you don't maintain a house, it falls apart extremely quickly.

Examples on my house. Plumbing leak. If it's not fixed the house can become uninhabitable in a few weeks.

Gutters filled up with leaves. If you don't clear them out, they'll sag and fall off the house, and you'll get creeping damp coming into the base of the house.

If you don't repaint exterior trim as it ages, the wood/metal underneath will rot/rust.

If you don't mow or maintain the green spaces, you'll end up with a bunch of brush and plant material near the house which can be a huge fire hazard.

Trees near the house need to be trimmed and maintained to prevent large limbs from damaging the roof.

If the house isn't lived in or maintained, animals will get into the attic, nest, urinate, and defecate, which will make the building uninhabitable.

Just a few examples there, literally there is an endless number of problems a house can have, and if someone isn't around to fix it at least mitigate them, then the house will very quickly become uninhabitable. I've personally seen it happen in less than a year.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I don't mean regarding maintenance, I mean why are the houses empty?

I could see a very undesirable area having houses left abandoned, just as they are in our current system. But in areas that are desirable, why would a house be left abandoned for so long when everybody needs a place to live?

A group from in the community could keep track of what houses aren't being used so they could direct people needing a home toward them. Perhaps if someone is moving they could inform that group that the house in now available, and give them the keys.

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Why would a house be empty?

Maybe it the family in it moved out because they only needed a quick place to stay short term after moving to a new city? Could be that it's housing for a college student who has gone back home during summer break? Maybe a nicer house opened up in the area, so the resident left their old house to go to the new one?

Your question seems to have the answer I was looking for in it though. It would fall on the neighbors to maintain the house until someone else moved in to it. So they would be doing extra work without any kind of compensation or benefit to maintain a home that anyone could just walk up to and claim. How do you think they are going to feel when some "house jumper" moves in, who just lets the place fall apart and moves on to another location because it costs them nothing to let the house go to ruins and they have no personal interest in maintaining it?

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Maybe it the family in it moved out because they only needed a quick place to stay short term after moving to a new city? Could be that it’s housing for a college student who has gone back home during summer break?

I think in most cases, short-term housing as you describe would be best served by more dense apartment complexes that are maintained by the community, and the people who stay in them for those short periods. They would be maintained in the same way that public transport or libraries would be maintained, as a public resource that everyone has access to and needs.

The benefit to those who maintain such complexes is that they would also freely have access to use such facilities in other parts of the country. This is not terribly dissimilar to how individual Native Americans were able to travel vast distances in America and expect accommodation from virtually any tribe they came across (that weren't hostile due to a larger conflict), because without such universal accommodation, each tribe would be limited in how far they could travel or trade. It was to all tribes mutual benefit to give each other that accommodation, in an early form of mutual aid (you can read more about that in David Wengrow's book, The Dawn of Everything, a very interesting read).

Maybe a nicer house opened up in the area, so the resident left their old house to go to the new one?

The Dispossessed by Ursula Le'Guin offers an interesting solution to that scenario. In that book, money does not exist, and housing is simply a right that all are entitled to. Couples and families are given larger accommodation when it becomes available, which is managed by an elected housing committee.

A single family home would be unlikely to be empty for long in a desirable area, so I don't think abandoned homes would be a significantly bigger issue than they already are under our current system. As a current example, In Japan, many smaller rural towns with dwindling populations have such an abundance of unoccupied homes, that they're actively paying people to move out to the area, and will sell the house for under $10k in the hopes someone will take them up and maintain it.

It would fall on the neighbors to maintain the house until someone else moved in to it.

Only if they wanted to. There would be no one to force them to do such a thing. They may elect to do so since they would have much more free time in a socialist world (estimates usually suggest around 3 months of community work would be required to give everyone a good standard of living, with the remainder of of the year being free time to do with as they please).

How do you think they are going to feel when some “house jumper” moves in who just lets the place fall apart and moves on to another location because it costs them nothing to let the house go to ruins and they have no personal interest in maintaining it?

How is that prevented in our current society? Many home owners let their home go into disrepair despite owning it. Sometimes this is done out of poverty, or a lack of motivation for upkeep. The only way to force someone to maintain their home in our current society is with HOA's who give fines or even jailtime to individuals if they don't. They don't have the most popular reputations.

Regardless, a community could decide to implement HOA-like rules if they all agreed to it, and then someone could decide if they wanted to live there and abide by those rules, or go somewhere where there aren't any (like our current system).

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

I think in most cases, short-term housing as you describe would be best served by more dense apartment complexes...

Okay, but that just kicks the can down the road, those apartments still need to be maintained. Yes, you answer that right here...

...that are maintained by the community...

So the community bears the effort and cost of maintaining houses (or apartments) which they are not allowed to benefit from.

A single family home would be unlikely to be empty for long in a desirable area...

Maybe. What if the neighbors are assholes? What if the house needs to many repairs? Having a dilapidated structure or dwelling next to yours can create a whole host of issues, from fire risk, to nuisance animals, pest and even increased rates of crime.

I don’t think abandoned homes would be a significantly bigger issue than they already are under our current system.

Hard to say. I think it would be worse. For all the faults the current system has, there is a direct financial incentive to own and maintain property. If you get a house and let it rot, you won't have a house to live in. If you get an apartment and let it rot, you won't be able to rent it out. When housing is free, the house itself becomes valueless, and not in a good way. I think we would see a significant number of people jumping from home to home, trashing each one and then moving on to the next, leaving the community with the choice of cleaning up those homes, or letting them become uninhabitable hazards, and a blight on the neighborhood. If you think people would suddenly start taking care of a home just because they have one, then I've got a bridge to sell you, just look at all the litter and pollution people dump everywhere. Take a moment and look at cars in parking lots, and I bet you'll find at least one that is packed to the brim with garbage, to the point of being dangerous to drive.

I haven't got time to read a book this morning, but for the basic premise of what you told me about The Dispossessed, I think I spotted a fundamental flaw in that system...

Couples and families are given larger accommodation when it becomes available, which is managed by an elected housing committee.

The only way to force someone to maintain their home in our current society is with HOA’s

No, there is a financial risk and financial incentive when you own a home, or even rent an apartment. If you don't take care of it, then you lose out on that risk. HOAs aren't necessary to enforce maintenance, there are zoning laws, city, state, and national laws that pertain to maintaining a home, along with certifications and inspections to make sure the dwelling is safe to inhabit.

Anyway, this wasnt meant to be a dialogue on the current system. It's clear that there are major flaws with it, but it's also clear that "just make housing a right and let anyone move into a house that the community has to pay for and work to maintain" is an idealistic dream that naively handwaves away reality.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

So the community bears the effort and cost of maintaining houses (or apartments) which they are not allowed to benefit from.

Bear in mind that the community would render aid to anyone who needs assistance in maintaining their own properties as well. It would be mutual aid. For the 'cost' of perhaps choosing to maintain a temporarily empty property, you would never need to 'purchase' a new roof, heater, or repairs for your own home. The community would help you the same way you helped them.

You're also ignoring my mention of the benefit that this mutual aid would enable others to travel to maintained community housing anywhere in the world for free.

I think we would see a significant number of people jumping from home to home, trashing each one and then moving on to the next, leaving the community with the choice of cleaning up those homes, or letting them become uninhabitable hazards, and a blight on the neighborhood.

I think you're putting a bit too much weight into the idea that the only thing keeping most housing stock in good condition is that financial barrier. I think most people would want to keep their home in good condition without financial pressures forcing them to keep it nice. If everyone let their home go into disrepair, then there would be no 'good' homes to jump to. It's in the interests of everyone to maintain good housing stock, so that if you ever did move you wouldn't only have shitholes to choose from.

If you think people would suddenly start taking care of a home just because they have one, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you, just look at all the litter and pollution people dump everywhere. Take a moment and look at cars in parking lots, and I bet you’ll find at least one that is packed to the brim with garbage, to the point of being dangerous to drive.

I'm not saying in this new way of society that everything will just become magically perfect, but I very much doubt it would be an epidemic on the scale you're thinking of. Even in your example of garbage filled cars, you don't find half the parking lot like that, only one at most. Just because a handful of people might not take care of their home doesn't mean it wasn't worth it to stop millions of people worldwide from suffering and dying on the streets, throwing themselves under busses due to hopelessness.

No, there is a financial risk and financial incentive when you own a home, or even rent an apartment. If you don’t take care of it, then you lose out on that risk.

There are millions of dilapidated homes that are owned by the people who live in them. There are thousands upon thousands of rental properties that landlords will let become unlivable and condemned. Owning a property or even having consequences does not stop that from happening.

there are zoning laws, city, state, and national laws that pertain to maintaining a home, along with certifications and inspections to make sure the dwelling is safe to inhabit.

There is nothing stopping a community from continuing to enforce those laws if they desire.

but it’s also clear that “just make housing a right and let anyone move into a house that the community has to pay for and work to maintain” is an idealistic dream that naively handwaves away reality.

"It's easier to imagine an end to the world, than to the end of capitalism."

I'd suggest looking at some more in-depth analysis instead of dismissing the concept off hand from a short comment.

[-] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 week ago

You're getting flack but you're not wrong. When I moved into my current house I was a landlord for over 3 years adopting the basement tenant already in the house. Rent was well below market rate and I never raised it. We were both respectful. Ultimately I terminated their lease because I have kids that are getting older and I need the extra space as well as just not in the mental headspace to rent my basement anymore. I've since gutted it with the intention of making it a proper finished basement for us all to enjoy.

I gave them over 3 months notice. First month rent back and provided references.

Some of us just want to do good.

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[-] stevedice@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago

Rant incoming. I'm trying to rent a apartment that is less than 1/4th of my salary but I might not get it because the landlord is too stupid to understand 80% of my salary is stocks so they won't show up on a paystub. This is the people that love to label themselves as savvy investors. God damn it. Rant over.

why don't you just buy a house?

My president just consolidated the three branches into one so I'm holding up in case I have to flee.

[-] kingofthezyx@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 week ago

I think it would work better if the weapons were firing at the sleeping kid directly from the soldier

[-] huquad@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

I've seen a recent finance bro fad saying renting and investing is better than owning. My brother in Christ my rent was much higher than my mortgage for a shittier spot and I didn't get equity.

[-] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

It depends, it can definitely be more worthwhile to rent.

[-] Sirence@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

It really depends on the circumstances. For me personally renting and investing is indeed better - but my rent is 500 Eur per month for 100m² cold and I can't finance a similar sized house for that here. Everyone needs to do their own math for their situation.

[-] huquad@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

I just did the math for renting/investing vs buying, including rent/house value yearly increase, income taxes on capital gains, mortgage rate, down payment amount, and initial house price. The results indicate a strong dependence on rent price and taxes/insurance for buying. I found that renting/investing can be a better financial option depending on the inputs. As another commenter pointed out, the main reasons are taxes/insurance and the greater time return rate for market vs home value. This was surprising to me, so I'm glad I ran the numbers. That tells me the real difference is your life choice of wanting a place of your own vs renting and moving around.

[-] The_v@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

During the last housing bubble, you could rent the same place for less than 1/2 the cost of buying it. Renting and investing made more sense then.

Currently buying a house is overpriced but rent is even more so.

The best financial decision right now is to live with your parents your entire life. If you don't have a parent you can stay with, then a tent and cardboard boxes in the park it is.

[-] min@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 week ago

Taxes and maintenance wouldn't be included in the mortgage. A new roof is expensive, so are HVACs, floors, etc. These things will need to be replaced. A rule of thumb is to budget 1% to 4% of the total house value per year. For a 400k house that could be up to $16k extra per year, or $1333 more per month than your mortgage. Those costs for maintenance and taxes don't go towards paying down your principal so they aren't directly gaining equity. With the rent and invest option, the investing is the counter to equity. When you sell your house you usually pay a realtor commission. There are a lot of factors to include when seeing if rent & invest is better than mortgage & buy.

That being said, I prefer to buy. I don't plan on moving anytime soon.

[-] village604@adultswim.fan 0 points 1 week ago

People who don't own homes don't understand just how expensive and time consuming it can be. And most of that money and work doesn't go towards building equity.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

The maintenance and taxes on my home are far cheaper then rent in my area. I could not afford to rent the home I own.

People don't understand that a landlord is going to charge enough rent to cover all those costs and still make a profit. Otherwise they would just sell the home.

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That the landlord is well out of the way of harm is the most accurate part of this meme 😂

[-] hansolo@lemmy.today 1 points 1 week ago

I once rented a house from friends that were out of the country. We paid exactly their mortgage payment (plus utils and I did and paid for handyman level stuff, they covered big stuff), which was $600 a month less than the market rate for places a step down in quality.

Once we left I told them to increase the rent by $200 for higher insurance and a real handyman and whatever else and it's still a huge favor to anyone they get by word of mouth only. The next couple thought they had won the lottery scoring a place for almost $5000 a year less than the rest of the area.

[-] BenLeMan@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Not sure what the graphic is trying to say. Are landlords supposed to protect people from increasing costs of home ownership? 🤔 How are these ideas connected?

Mind you, ownership implies that you are not renting your home, you own it.

[-] causepix@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

People say landlords provide a service that is providing housing to another person without them having to pay the full cost of homeownership. Yet, because the landlord is not only covering their costs but extracting as much profit as the market will allow, the cost and experience of renting is pretty damn competitive with that of ownership. So to answer your question,

Are landlords supposed to protect people from increasing costs of home ownership?

Yes, that is the way most non-landlords justify the existence of landlords to themselves. The alternative is to acknowledge that landlords exist only for the sake of enabling the owning class to generate capital for themselves by exploiting the working class.

[-] BenLeMan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

O-kay. I can think of a myriad of other reasons than sheer cost why I might not want to buy a home straight away. But I see how the graphic kind of makes sense in the way you describe.

I'm not a big fan of landlords, by the way, and the instant downvoting for asking a simple question is extremely rude. Doesn't exactly foster community engagement, guys! 😑

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this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2025
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