No one is arguing that "Israel" is worse for the world than the US lmao. Or at least no one should be.

There is a huge difference between Israel controlling politicians and it controlling the US government overall. The latter is ridiculous and antisemitic and false, but the former is true. AIPAC only exists because the US lets it exist, but it and other projects the US permits are obviously strong influences on some US politicians.

THANK YOU. Why are we taking the position of literally ignoring reality here? Of course many American politicians are under the influence of the "Israeli" lobby. It's precisely because "Israel" relies on American support that this is the case. It allows them to maintain that support even when their actions are deeply unpopular in America and sometimes harmful to American interests, while still continuing those actions.

It's sort of a weird situation, but denying the effect of Israel directly lobbying people or acting like every instance of lobbying is based on the unilateral dictate of the US rather than existing in a broader framework of the US allowing Israel to pursue an agenda of buying zionism because that is beneficial to US foreign interests anyway is silly.

Exactly this. The net result is that while "Israel" can only exist with American support, it's a sovereign state with nuclear weapons that also exerts some amount of influence on US politics and has its own, sometimes divergent interests. The idea that it's just a puppet leads people to try to force every "Israeli" action into the mold of "how does this benefit America" and come to completely incorrect conclusions. Sometimes "Israel" does things that benefit America because they also benefit "Israel", very rarely (only when forced) "Israel" does things that benefit America and harm "Israel", but most often "Israel" does things that benefit "Israel" without much regard for the benefit of others because it's a sovereign state (with nuclear weapons).

Some people on this site are claiming that this absolves the US of responsibility (which isn't true), but by that logic the framing of "Israel" as a tool of America and nothing else absolves "Israel" of responsibility, which I think is much more grotesque.

i see where you're coming from here, because american pigs are racist and violent. but the IDF really showed them how to pop off with that shit and there's no denying it.

you'd think. I have a friend in mil intelligence here. The CIA is running the show. Now again our respective bourgeoisie interests aligns, for the most part.

there's a nazi "zog" conspiracy theory where the tail is supposedly completely in control of the dog, and this is obviously not true.

then there's whatever aipac is doing and there's absolutely infighting like when they redistricted bowman out of a seat, and it seems weird not to call that proximate cause israeli interests rather than american interests because the US doesn't give a fuck about a couple congressional reps half-assing criticism but not actually impeding the genocide.