I quit DSA because it wasn't Leftist enough.
You quit DSA because it wasn't Zionist enough.
We are not the same.
Maybe it's worth checking out again now
It sounds like it’s moving left, though it also sounds like this has only been possible due to a mass drop in membership following the failure of the Bernie campaigns. Marxist Unity Group seems like their worth checking out as an internal bloc to the DSA and where it could go
But they remained united in one overarching shared aim—to take a well-meaning, not particularly well-organized, and essentially social democratic organization still committed in practice to the original DSA vision of creating “the left wing of the possible,” and reinvent it as the mass vanguard party of the proletariat that somehow they had never been able to pull off while operating under their own banners of deepest red.
Founding member of popular socialist group doesn't know definition of socialist.
Yup, that's America.
Amazing how this just hits pretty much every radlib talking point.
Also, you don't have to read the article now, I just summed it up. Unless you really want to read about the radlib history of the DSA.
the horrific Hamas October 7 anti-Jewish pogrom
That is a wild way to frame an attack from within a ghetto against the nation that starves them in a ghetto
Its the same way we'd phrase a prison break here in the US.
The prisoners used violence against the guards, which is an unacceptable reversal of roles. The inmates that broke out have condemned everyone in the jail, since anyone might have shown them aid or even sympathy. The inmates are presumed dangerous, presumed deserving of punishment, and presumed less than human. Hell, its not far off from the way we described New Orleans residents fleeing Hurricane Katrina. Or Haitians escaping their own island prison.
What we're witnessing in Palestine isn't far from what American politicians want to implement at home. That's what is so fucking chilling about all this. Palestine is our future.
GOOD post
Any time I read “Hamas pogrom” I mentally check out. Meaningless word salad. Pogroms cannot be effected by the people who are being subjugated
Warsaw Uprising? You mean the horrific Home Army August 1 anti-German pogrom?
Yeah, if Hamas took pains to avoid hurting non-Jewish whites or something like that, then there might be a real question of antisemitism. Or if they, like, greased their bullets with shellfish (halal but not kosher) or literally screamed "death to Jews" or . . . Basically anything inconsistent with simply lashing out in violence against the colonizer population, which is not what a pogrom is.
Pogroms are enacted by powerful groups against disenfranchised, oppressed and weak groups. It’s literally impossible for Palestinians to pogrom Israelis, they simply don’t have the means
Eat shit Zionist dog.
This should be in c/the_dunk_tank. Entryism is when people join my org. Imagine the DSA being too radical for you
Lol yeah the whole entryism framing is so silly. Like the author says it's a bad thing when his party gains new members unless they completely agree with some old socdems?
ctrl+f "workers", "working class", "proletariat" NOT FOUND 
old-fashioned Marxist-Leninist
You know who else believed that struggling with the contradictions of class society is "outdated" and not "modern"? The nazis
DSA’s National Political Committee did not agree with the two most prominent democratic socialists in American public life.
doesn't really seem like a huge dunk on the DSA tbh
knowing Israel@will retaliate- do you get that they don’t give a FUCK about Palestinian lives?????
damn silverman, what if the israeli military simply... didn't retaliate? is it really solely on the prisoners inside the concentration camp to break the cycle of violence, even as that violent cycle is being continuously engineered by the guards?
Also, in any socialist organization worth its salt the direction should be coming from the ground up, not the organization acquiescing to a couple of high-profile nominally socialist figures.
nominally
That's a word carrying a huge load for those liberals, if you're talking about who I think you're talking about
The DSA has constitutional measures to undercut structures of democratic centralism, so it shouldn't be surprising that the liberal administrators want to be able to steer it as they please.
I started reading thinking this was someone that's pro-Palestine upset about DSA being too pro-Israel. Pleasant surprise to see that it is instead just a succ-dem purging themself.
DSA is getting better? Weeks where decades are happening?
I don't like DSA, but this was good.
40 years and fuck-all to show for it, but the moment any energy comes into the org from the outside and you leave? Good riddance
dsa pmc settler karens can self-deport 
Anti-zionism seems to be the easiest fucking way to purge these losers.
If you're sus about any wreckers or feds or neolibs in your org, ask whether they denounce israel and zionism. It will quickly out any of them.
Hot take: DSA national's statement is good because it condemns the killing of all civilians and still gets these people to show their asses. Seems like it may come in handy later.
DSA, meanwhile, thrived between 2016 and 2020—because it proved it could win victories in the here-and-now, give-and-take world of electoral politics
This sucks. Now don't get me wrong, DSA has been able to get on some city councils and do some good work. But their main victory, the representatives belonging to "the squad" have all capitulated to Democrats and are at this point no different than standard liberals. Ilhan Omar did call Eliot Abrams evil to his face so that was kinda cool though
There were many eloquent responses to DSA’s all-but-explicit endorsement of Hamas’s horrifying atrocities... But the one I’d like to highlight is from comedian, writer, and actor Sarah Silverman
Of course you would. What a fucking dork
Good. Let the anti-Palestine people quit.
buh-byeeeee
But the one I’d like to highlight is from comedian, writer, and actor Sarah Silverman, posted on her Instagram account on October 8, after reading the National Political Committee’s initial response to the events of the previous day:
The DSA of which I was a proud lifetime member, has lost me forever…
Hold the fucking phone. Since fucking when was Sarah Silverman in the DSA?
She was probably part of the 2016 membership drive during the Sanders campaign. She was a vocal Sanders supporter for a while so I could believe it. A bunch of celebrities are in the DSA. I know Tim Heidecker is a member too. So is Adam McKay, the guy who wrote Anchorman.
"Well I guess I'll join the Azov battalion then" - this loser
My revolution will end when I am put against the wall for being anti-revolutionary. This is good.
Unknown numbers—hundreds, perhaps more—started joining in 2016, some of them former members of defunct Marxist-Leninist groups, others (in violation of DSA by-laws) still belonging to and carrying out the agendas of such groups.
(emphasis mine)
I remember being confused about this language in the sample new-chapter bylaws when I was trying to help form a chapter in my town! Our organizing committee really didn't care about this language and removed it from our original submission, but we were told it was required. I asked the others on the organizing committee about it and didn't get an explanation, just "oh well, it doesn't apply to any of us anyway, who cares," but now I finally get it. It also makes some of the tension on the forums make a little more sense.
Edit - so, as I continued reading, I was struck by something that seemed a little contradictory, but maybe I'm thinking about this the wrong way? He's celebrating all these tens of thousands of young people joining DSA just because it's big and has "socialist" in the name - not because they inherently care about DSA, but just because they liked what Bernie had to say politically and wanted to group up with other people with similar politics. He's also simultaneously bemoaning the large but mysterious number of multi-org people joining DSA because it's big and looks like a place to group up with other people with similar politics.
Am I just totally not understanding? I get that I'm oversimplifying a little bit here, but basically: he's mad that the second group is loud, active, growing in popularity, and doesn't share his politics?
It kinda comes across like the jealous, shitty partner who is mad about anybody giving you any kind of positive attention, especially your wonderful friend with the giant crush on you. What if you realize you have more in common with them and leave?!? They found you first, fair and square - you're in Isserman's DSA now, and it's not okay for other orgs to look at you or talk to you!
Edit 2: are other orgs like this? is this common? DSA is the only org I've been in. I've been wanting another, but my first experience sucked enough that joining another seems daunting.
This sentence in his bio also makes me 🤔
His next book on the history of the American Left, Reds: The Tragedy of American Communism, will be published by Basic Books in June 2024.
Same deal here. Working on chapter bylaws, ran into the clause nobody could explain. “Don’t worry about it”, but “National says it has to stay”. As my political education grew it became clear that, far from a “leftist big tent”, DSA was always designed to be an explicitly pro-US anticommunist organization. I left after the Bowman affair the expulsion of the i~~nternational committee~~ Palestine Solidarity Working Group. The old permanent self appointed chapter leadership has since come out in favor of sending arms to Ukraine, and came out against the local Palestine solidarity rally because it was “infiltrated by the PSL”.
Worse was to come at DSA’s state and local levels. Connecticut DSA tweeted on October 8, “Yesterday, the Palestinian resistance launched an unprecedented anti-colonial struggle,” without providing any of the messy details as to what that “struggle” involved.
"the struggle" is when I need an extra shot in my cappuccino on monday cuz I have to to go to bat so hard for bloodsoaked zionist fascists. what you guys did - the whole "armed liberation against genocide" thing - that's just straight up uncivil 
DSA, meanwhile, thrived between 2016 and 2020—because it proved it could win victories in the here-and-now, give-and-take world of electoral politics. And that, ironically, was intolerable to the entryists (who preferred to refer to themselves as “partyists”), because they didn’t want socialists to remain as a wing of, or even a loyal opposition within the Democratic Party. They wanted a break, in the not terribly distant future, from the intolerable compromises required to appeal to mainstream voters and to compromise with mainstream politicians. And they also believed that DSA members elected to public office were, first and foremost, obliged to follow the positions adopted by the organization, rather than their constituents or their own conscience, as if they were already subordinate to the dictates of an old-fashioned Marxist-Leninist central committee.
What's the point of supporting and fundraising for a candidate if they don't even have any obligations to you? Sounds like that strategy was remarkably bad at "winning victories in the here-and-now, give-and-take world of electoral politics."
Big "no, it's the children who are wrong" energy.
Shouldn't this be in the dunk tank? Fucking crybaby whining about a socialist organization emphasizing sympathy for victims of imperialism.
Shouldn't this be in the dunk tank?
Uhhh....probably. I'm never good at picking the right comm
Zionists are no ally of mine in any capacity and deserve the same wall any other fascist does.
I expected this to be about something the DSA did wrong, but I was pleasantly surprised.
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank
Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here
Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank
