"It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
Two things can be true
Unmedicated ADHD has worse outcomes for a bunch of things like relationships, risky behavior (e.g. addictive behaviors), and tasks that require sustained concentration (e.g. driving). It is more often comorbid with other issues than not like anxiety and depression.
Personally, I've lost my ability to do many things I enjoyed after changing to non stimulant meds when getting them was nigh impossible (plus other side effects were starting to make them not worth it). Tango because it's exhausting to have to pay attention to the flow of dance, plan what I'm going to lead, and execute it in sync to the music. Scuba because underwater is not where you want to run out of executive function no matter what kind of society I'm in. I almost lost my martial art because I didn't have enough executive function left to practice safely about 2/3 of the way through class (luckily, I do adequately on my current meds). I've made absolutely idiotic relationship decisions when I was on stimulants but it was past the time of day when they wore off. It can be difficult to get started even on things I enjoy. Etc etc.
There's no society that fixes me. I do ok in this one because of the coping behaviors, systems, and medications. But I would press the button that got rid of my ADHD without hesitation.
tbh I am always disappointed when this conversation comes up in these spaces. I feel entirely left out and invalidated. It's difficult for me to avoid the assumption that many of the people taking the opposing position here are self-dX. Like how mild are your symptoms that they go away when people are nicer to you and lower their expectations of you?
ADHD fucking sucks. I don't mean the way people treat me sucks. I mean ADHD sucks. It is a roadblock that prevents me from accomplishing goals that I set for myself, even if I take a week off work to do it. Even if the goals are just for fun. I want to be able to focus on programming. I want to be able to focus on writing. I want better executive function. I want to be able to consistently make better choices. I do not want to be cared for. I am an independent person and I always have been. Living in a multigenerational household where my grandma does my laundry and I cook on odd numbered days when I feel like it or whatever will not change the way my brain works. It also just sounds like a nightmare.
For what it's worth when I clap back at the "ADHD is a you problem" I'm not saying the meds don't help. You can pry these drugs from my cold dead hands!
If life was more accommodating maybe I could use them to be the person I want to be and not to enable me to suppress burnout symptoms so that I can participate in capitalism.
Imho, the expectation that we musts et goals and achieve them is partly due to the society imposing this on us... Yet it's true that we must still set goals regarding food and sleep!
When I'm by myself (ex: backpacking), I try to avoid setting goals, and to go with the flow. The hardest part is not to overpay for things when normies assume that "not planning" is a good reason to screw someone over. (ie: they didn't book in advance, so off course it's normal to charge 5x the price!)
I decided that I don't want to be a virtuoso at the guitar, I just play for fun. If I can't practice a full hour everyday because of my ED, I no longer care.
I like the nomadic/sedentary comparison of ADHD/normie. When things are steady and unchanging, and planning is usefull, then ADHD sucks. When things are chaotic and unpredictable, ADHD is a superpower (and medication hinders it).
My ED goes away when I need to react to a problem. Not sure how this extends to other people though... I'm good at problem solving, so I don't get anxiety in front of the unknown.
I almost lost my martial art because I didn’t have enough executive function left to practice safely about 2/3 of the way through class
along those lines, I've been thinking about getting into tai chi. think it's adaptive enough that it works with adhd?
I tried it and got bored. Ymmv. You'll have to shop around for something that you like and a decent teacher.
a decent teacher.
that's what makes the class really, regardless of the martial art they're teaching.
Unmedicated ADHD isn’t half as bad, if there’s a supportive community surrounding people.
Smaller families, atomized society, individualism all make is harder to socially compensate and coregulate.
Did you read my comment or do you just feel like saying both my experience and the research of experts aren't worth anything? How the hell is a supportive community going to keep me from drowning or crashing a vehicle? I'd still be tired all the time, I'd still turn into an idiot when exhausted, I'd still be depressed. Society doesn't change my neurochemistry.
Studies have shown community is a key component in reducing addiction. A society that accommodated different sleep patterns would probably lead to less tiredness (I am a night owl but my job is 8-5, for example.)
Society doesn’t change your neurochemistry, that’s true. But it can change what your neurochemistry has to contend with. Consider a basic inorganic chemistry scenario: some materials dissolve in water much more readily when the water is hot. Does that mean they are insoluble, or poorly soluble, in cold water? Not at all. The environment impacts that behavior.
A loving community that personally knows you and how you operate help of course. Not being along when swimming or someone else driving for example. Or you living a life where you don’t even need to drive a vehicle daily.
Exhaustion and depression are a result of constantly being overwhelmed, hypervigilant, and so on.
Your environment and activity can change your neurochemistry in a major way.
Let’s say you lived in a multi generational family. You don’t need to do all the laundry and household chores by yourself, nor do you need to manage them. Singing silly songs with a companion during chores make them more easily doable for someone with ADHD.
depression [is] a result of constantly being overwhelmed, hypervigilant, and so on.
Wrong. Absolutely incorrect. Stop reading whatever self help bullshit that told you that.
multi generational family
This sounds like absolute hell. Not all of us have good relationships with our families. Most of the people with ADHD have at least one parent with ADHD, and guess who has problems regulating emotions. And guess what kind of risky behaviors the children will engage in.
Even though there are more people to do chores, there are more people producing dishes, laundry, trash. It's a wash at best for neurotypical people, but a bunch of people that have a hard time initiating tasks? Again, doesn't seem like a rosy picture to me.
Both?
Both.
Nah. Society 💯%
My dopamine-defficient corners of the brain would like to have a word with you. And everyone else reading this. Oh look, a butterfly! I'm tired. Like a tire. Weeeh! dozes off 😴
Tyre is also a city in Lebanon.
Edit: sometimes I have dreams that my tyres are worn & I get a pleasant surprise when I see that they aren't.
Don't be silly, you can't wear a city.
Tyre is also how British people spell tire, like the thing that goes on a car. Oh shit, my registration is expired.
Our society definitely doesn't help, but I am about as free of the bs our society does as you can get and I still fucking hate how often I just forget that I wanted to do something or lose something forever... I can only blame society so much for the fact that I lose literally everything I care about the moment I don't need it for 0.0005 seconds (I set it down and it disappeared in that time)
False dichotomy. Why not both?
Broken societies breaking people..
Broken people, broken societies
I really envy you people who would thrive in a different world. Since I stopped taking meds I have found it utterly impossible to maintain good habits and my life has more or less stagnated. I don't think socialism is gonna fix my brain you guys. Except by, you know, making Vyvanse not cost 800 fucking dollars.
Well, I discovered (the hard way) that unreasonable, explosive rage is a side effect of that, so Vyvanse costing 800 is a feature, not a bug.
Why do I need legal meth when you can take a fucking chill pill? Amirite?
We are broken because society is broken.
1000s of years from now, whatever proceeds us will be judging us for our microplastics use, just as we judge the Romans for their lead use.
we still use lead water pipes, tbf
and we know the romans knew it was bad for them
I think you meant "whatever follows us".
Or “proceeds from us.” “Precede” means coming before, “proceed” means originating from.
The type of society that would have to exist for me not to have severe anxiety and depression has never existed....
Now thats a good philosorapter.👏
There's still reasons to take medication and treatment of ADHD. Even though society is built to just make people on the top money and grind you down doesn't change that fact.
Yes
Well duh. Ofcourse other people are the issue and not me.
The existence of one doesn't disprove the other
The lighter side of ADHD
