why was this mecha series made? : anime

[-] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 38 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Mechanime 1963-1980: Haha big robot fights monsters and EEEEEVIL mad scientists! (buy our toys, kids!)

Mechanime 1980-1995: Imperialism and war fucking suck, we need to create a better society where it won't happen anymore! (SUNRISE: buy our toys, kids!)

Mechanime 1995-2006: Have you heard of a show named Neon Genesis Evangelion? (buy our skimpy-clothed figurines, otaku!)

Mechanime 2006-Now: 50% chance it's right wing nonsense and 50% chance it's trying to recapture the golden age of Mechanime and is unlikely to have succeeded.

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 26 points 2 years ago

Mechanime 1980-1995: Imperialism and war fucking suck, we need to create a better society where it won't happen anymore! (SUNRISE: buy our toys, kids!)

This is how we got the unironic Zeon stans. Just pure wow-cool-robot because no one explained to the kids who bought Zaku's why War is Bad.

(Because we're on Hexbear someone is going to link that red sails article about propaganda now lol)

[-] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago

yea

There were more progressive wings in zeonism, like those that would later found the pre-cooption-by-the-federation AEUG, but the leading faction was consistently the fascistic one.

[-] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 15 points 2 years ago

The Bandai employees at the Gundam Factory wearing Federation uniforms is also pretty wow-cool-robot lol.

[-] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

will communism have gunpla?

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 17 points 2 years ago

If I can't build Gundams to it, it's not my revolution.

Emma Goldman

[-] MerryChristmas@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

Every day your one job is to build a gunpla model. You start off with low grades and some wire cutters and by the time you graduate you're building real Gundams for the people's army.

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 33 points 2 years ago

yea

There’s a bunch which are critical of American hegemony like Code Geass but then it’s a 50/50 split whether the director trips head first into nationalism or not

Majestic Prince was a mecha show that was kinda ok, but probably only because it was trying really hard to copy Leiji Matsumoto works like Space Battleship Yamato

[-] alcoholicorn@hexbear.net 30 points 2 years ago

They missed check boxes for "mad about the lack of punching fascists?" and "mad about the lack of punching fascists, but concerned about punching fascists too hard"

[-] Cromalin@hexbear.net 34 points 2 years ago

people don't make mecha anime for those reasons anymore 😔

[-] worlds_okayest_mech_pilot@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago

I cry every day because of this angery

[-] Galli@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

y'all are still making anime? the-doohickey

[-] Cromalin@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

yeah they make some good ones sometimes

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago

Oh right, the other new-ish non-Gundam mecha show that came out that was decent was 86, the first season of which is basically a giant tear down of the kind of performative support for the oppressed that liberals do, alongside an exploration about what being an ally really means. Show was really heavy tho.

I still remember mfers on r/anime saying that the depiction of racism and fascism in the show was too exaggerated and unbelievable. I wonder what they think about what's happening in real life in Gaza now, or if they even think about it at all.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 17 points 2 years ago

I enjoyed 86 because of the von Neumann 'robots' the protagonists are fighting because, and mind you I only watched the first season minus the final episode,

show spoiler

The concept of an artificial intelligence thats built off of a cybernetic neural network that can be continually expanded by inputting more organic matter actually filled me with a sense of existential terror at the very concept. It makes one question whether or not the cyberware can be concidered a living organism, a question of how concious inputted brains are, and so many more thoughts along that vein.

Also would they be considered a form of zombies since they're hunting for brains?

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago

spoiler

Yeah, I'd count the robots as zombies. To me they filled the same storytelling role as zombies- a metaphor for a big existential threat like climate change, and I think the show did a good job of illustrating just how ill-equipped an ideology like fascism would be at dealing with something like that.

Season 2 goes into more detail about the sci-fi aspects of the show, like how the robots came to be and what their goals are. For me it was overall a lot weaker compared to S1, not that it was bad.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Huh sounds like season two sounds more up my alley in terms of sci-fi-horror nerd shit then. I personally thought the whole story metaphor for a fascist society was so unsubtly hamfisted I was turned off by it and pretty much anything having to so with the society the writers world built made me want to skip back to the kids on the front line.

Like I guess I'd get it if the authors' intent was to convey fascism fucking sucks by being as obtuse as possible about it to make sure that everybody but the most ignorant people on the subject matter knows what the hell the author's message is. I still don't like getting beaten over the head with the silly metaphorical clown hammer though.

[-] Melonius@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago

spoiler

The more compelling part of the show for me was the constant flashbacks to the happier times on the kids side, where characters who were long dead at the present we're having meaningful interactions with each other. It really got to me and you can easily contrast that with the ones in the core shirking their duties of telling kids to go to their death. I think the most hamfisted metaphor was the neural link being an "empathy" test. As someone who's media illiterate I thought the show was unique because it's so rare to find a show with a straightforward depiction of fascism exploiting/sacrificing an out group to sustain it's way of life/treat consumption.

Like you said the story on the front was far more interesting and thats where the show spent a lot of it's time

.

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago

I get it, but given the state of media literacy I'm much more predisposed to how the 86 author does things than anything subtler. Like I alluded to above, some people really need to get hit over the head repeatedly with the bluntest allegories possible, even if it's not you or me. After all, we live in a world where the Starship Troopers and Fight Club movies can be willfully misinterpreted. Having said that, the thing I found personally most compelling about the show was in how it depicted the human costs of racism and fascism, and the toll it takes even on those who supposedly benefit from those systems of oppression. I thought the character writing and the dramatization of that theme were particularly strong.

S2 summary

Season 2 is mostly about PTSD and a genocide survivor dealing with survivor's guilt, just a heads up. They flesh out the world-building a bit but tbh some of the answers the show supplies to the questions you're asking aren't very compelling, and imo were better left unanswered to make the robots scarier, but ymmv. There's also one new character that gets introduced who's actually really annoying too, you'll know why the minute they appear on-screen. The runtime is mostly filled with sci-fi mecha tank battles (hence the need to flesh out the worldbuilding, so you understand the robots tactics and maneuvers) so if that's your cup of tea I'd recommend it.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

I thought the character writing and the dramatization of that theme were particularly strong.

I'd agree with that. Outside of my own personal interests in the ghosts in the machines the major draw to the show was definitely the characters and how their stories were interwoven together in their journey of life towards many of their deaths.

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago

It is a bit sad that postmodern irony poisoning has killed storytelling with any kind of nuance. I'm watching Pluto rn and it feels wonderful to have a show not handhold you and just present concepts and ideas for the viewer to think about, no matter how esoteric or high concept sci-fi they are.

But also I have an inexplicable urge to scream "THE ROBOTS ARE AN ALLEGORY FOR THE WORKING CLASS!!!" at the top of my lungs

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

I keep hearing about the pluto show and how great it is. I also know the story was concocted by the same guy that made Monster. I can already tell that you enjoy the show, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it so far.

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

It's basically playing with a lot of the same concepts that Bladerunner 2049 is (right down to the police procedural framing device), but because it has a longer runtime and a larger cast it's able to give it's ideas more time to breath, so the mystery is an actual mystery and the sci-fi gets to be kinda out-there in a good way. It's also not afraid to get political- I dunno if it'll stick the landing yet but yeah there's a very thinly veiled allegory about the Iraq war and Foucault's boomerang here (that's kinda True Detective Season 2-ish?), and the main character being a cop from an allegorical minority worked well enough in k-pain for exploring systemic issues and it works well enough here, although again I'm only halfway thru so I dunno if it'll stick the landing

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

Ok, finished the show and it didn't stick the landing but I still enjoyed it overall.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

Oh wow that was quick.

It's something I always noticed with a lot of Japanese shows I've watched is that it seems like it's really hard to stick the landing regardless of how well they constructed the story over its runtime.

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It's only 8 episodes (albeit 1 hr eps) and I had the day off lol

Without spoiling too much, the story does tie all the loose ends up but imo it kinda rushes the ending, and ends up with a kinda non-commital run-of-the-mill politics (especially compared to something like Bladerunner 2049).

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

Yeah that sounds about right in terms of unsatisfactory wrap-ups. It's not particularly surprising since that's usually how it is with wrap-ups but still leaves a bit of an empty feeling in ya

[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago

Yeah, I'm mad about Article 9. Mad that it's been interpreted to allow Japan any weapons at all soviet-huff

[-] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago

Well, that’s because the US realized a no weapons policy would prevent the U.S. from having military bases and also just using Japan as a vassal state

[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago

......I hate mechanics anime and only tolerate code grass because it's about the characters and not the mechanics

(Spellcheck hard at work, but I think I made my point)

[-] Cromalin@hexbear.net 32 points 2 years ago

unlike other mech anime it's about the characters? that's literally every mech anime. they're all about the characters. except patlabor which is about communism

[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

A lot of people say "it's about the characters" when defending code geass and I can't speak to why they say it, but I personally mean it's not about who has the strongest mech suits. Also not every problem is solved in a mech battle, many times the MC in geass deals with it himself.

I do admit I tried watching the original Gundam though and the first few episodes were better than I expected and was thinking that perhaps I ought to give it a chance. I just really, really don't like mech suits.

[-] Cromalin@hexbear.net 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

mech anime is almost always character focused and not purely decided by robot combat. 0079 is itself a good example of this, as is most gundam. they may face mech combat, but the primary things moving the plot are circumstances beyond the capacity of a small number of robots fighting to solve. if you want really good examples of this, turn a gundam is full of characters either solving problems without using their mechs or using mechs for non-combat purposes. if you're active in this comm you've seen that i keep recommending it to everyone ever because it's really good, even if you aren't into the robots

[-] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

Turn A shilling again smh

I actually restarted my watch-through of the show a couple of days ago because of you and I'm still impressed by how good the show is even from a technical perspective. The pacing, the directing, the music, the artstyle, etc.

The scene at the end of E1 where Loran

spoiler

calls for the Moonrace to RETVRN home as part of space Zionism

is beautifully made and sets the tone for the show (at least as of episode 11, which is where I left off last time I tried to watch Turn A.

[-] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

Turn A best anime!

[-] Cromalin@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

moon playing as loran hugs the machine that brought them there is an all time great ending to a pilot episode

frankly having the song moon to end your episodes with is kind of cheating

[-] ChestRockwell@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago

The real/super robot distinction comes in clutch again.

Not that super can't be about character, but there is often decided by either the mech magic or power levels

[-] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

To be fair, most Super Robo are Saturday Morning Cartoons without any pretensions to being anything else.

Then Evangelion happened and everything had to get edgy lmao

[-] invalidusernamelol@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

it's not about who has the strongest mech suits. Also not every problem is solved in a mech battle

In Gurren Lagaan it's about who screams the loudest

[-] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

Patlabor is definitely character driven too (and about Communism)

[-] Cromalin@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

yeah, but i needed to joke about something and patlabor was the first thing that came to mind

[-] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago

code grass

yeah i like weed too

[-] Orannis62@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

People here who like mecha anime should listen to Partizan and its sequel Palisade, which are explicitly communist mecha anime in podcast form

Partizan is about how you awaken peoples' minds to the idea of revolution when capitalism and empire seems so ingrained and powerful that revolution seems completely impossible- how do you even get people to imagine it? And Palisade is about fighting one tiny corner of that revolution.

Listen to the three minute intro of this episode for a small taste. And while we're at it, this episode is also a worldbuilding episode where they make a parody of Pod Save America set in their world and is very funny and could be a good, larger taste

[-] Cromalin@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

i wanna but i'm still making my way through counter/weight. i'm not really built for actual play podcasts but i love what i've heard

also i love that interview. respect to ali for being an utena person, respect to the interviewer for saying turn a is obviously the best gundam, respect to austin for making his materialist view of the world clear in those responses

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[+] What_Religion_R_They@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

[deleted]

[-] replaceable@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago

Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution

Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution is a clause in the Constitution of Japan outlawing war as a means to settle international disputes involving the state.

[-] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

what is article 9

[-] Cromalin@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Japanese_Constitution

lotta japanese nationalists very mad they can't technically have a standing army and many of them go on to make anime that's super fascist. something like eva has elements of that but not as much as something like amaim or gate or whatever

[-] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

oh thanks

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[-] Helmic@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

play lancer

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