I wasn't intending to but now that you mention it... : memes

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 79 points 9 months ago

Here's how I interpret their reactions:

Conservatives tend to have much larger amygdalas, which makes sense, as their worldview is based around fear. The brain/ amygdala treats threats to personal identity with the same fear response as physical threats.

A 15-minute city means you don't need a car, and it's far less convenient to have one. But for a lot of people, especially the conservative folks, their car (or bro-dozer) is their identity, or at least a huge part of it. Their identity is fragile enough already, it can't withstand removing a big chunk of it. (How would a man know he's a man without a truck to perform masculinity in?)

Therefore, a walkable city is s threat to their vehicle, which is a threat to their identity, which is just as frightening as a physical threat, like being hunted for sport.

[-] littlebluespark@lemmy.world 32 points 9 months ago

You're fun. I like your brains.🤙🏼

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

- Dr. Hannibal Lecter

[-] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago

In the sense of all politics is sexual pathology I'd argue these people would to just like to fuck their car. It's an object kink or however that's called. I ain't shaming anybody over it, it's not like the car is going to care, but it makes for terrible transportation planning

You ever see how much car-people describe cars as sexy or go like weirdly overboard with the curves? It's because they all want to fuck cars. We should just allow that, hell, build infrastructure for it.

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[-] RiderExMachina@lemmy.ml 77 points 9 months ago

I wish I could find it and share the actual quote, but someone on Twitter (iirc) posted something like, "the best way to approach urbanism and biking to conservatives is to say 'I'm for traditional neighborhoods that use independent transportation methods without government overreach' or 'I want fiscally responsible transportation methods'."

To no one's surprise, these refer to walkable cities, using walking or biking, and include buses with the second quote.

[-] programmer_belch@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 9 months ago

As always, the way to get to them is using buzzwords

[-] ook_the_librarian@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

At least the appropriated buzzwords are used correctly. We're not twisting words like hearing "affordable healthcare" and using an ingrained Rush Limbaugh decoder to hear "death panels". We're just preserving the poison that was already in their buzzwords.

Limbaugh's gone, but the playbook is the same.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 5 points 9 months ago

you may get them to agree to it in a conversation or two, but they're going to forget after 10 seconds of FoxNews or a Facebook rant. They certainly won't do anything like organize or boycott oil money, or even something as small as voting for city council measures to increase public transportation

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

“the best way to approach urbanism and biking to conservatives is to say ‘I’m for traditional neighborhoods that use independent transportation methods without government overreach’ or ‘I want fiscally responsible transportation methods’.”

I mean, sure. And that might stick for a conversation or a few days. But come back in a week, after their ears have been pumped with Agenda 21 China Takeover Shari Law Communist Prison State talk radio gibberish. You'll be right back to square one.

At some point, it isn't the quality of message but the quantity. If you want to trick your Evangelical Homophobic Constitution Party voting uncle into supporting 15 minute cities, you need to configure his AM radio to play Well There's Your Problem podcast episodes in place of whatever crap Clear Channel is transmitting.

[-] RiderExMachina@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago

Well there's our problem. There's no way you'd get my Evangelical Homophobic Constitution Party voting uncle to even listen to There's Your Problem because within the first two minutes they'll say "So the problem is Capitalism," and he'd go back to Limbaugh reruns.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

The first two minutes of any WTYP episode is Rocz or Liam fighting with the recording interface, to comic effect.

And I think that's one of the selling points of a lot of these indie leftist shows. They're entertaining in a way the old grouchy wingers aren't. Admittedly, it's very Millennial/Zoomers humor. So maybe Alice joking about bombing the local golf course isn't going to be Uncle's speed.

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[-] Nemo@midwest.social 8 points 9 months ago

This but not sarcastically. I'm politically conservative, and for the same reasons that I'm an environmental conservationist. Framing things in a way that makes sense to the listener is just good messaging.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

yeah except the problem isn't messaging to the sensibilities of individual conservative people, the 15 minute city concept is offensive to oil and automotive money. The private car industry has had a strangle on urban planning since the 1950s and they're not going to release it just because some words get swapped around. They'll only change it through destroying their power, and that's the part that politically conservative people aren't going to fathom nor support.

Also the messaging of "get anywhere you need to go through 15 minutes of walking or cycling" is already as good of messaging as it's going to get. That sounds like absolute utopia on its face. Conservatives have somehow twisted that already perfect message to mean no one would be allowed to leave a grid or that people are going to be shot in the street for thoughtcrimes. They think it means cars will be outright illegal, or I've even seem some claim the concept means parents and children will belong to different sectors and won't be allowed to see one another.

[-] JonEFive@midwest.social 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

They'll also point to crime rates in large cities and cherry-pick statistics that suit their arguments without doing any in depth analysis. Especially when they can parrot irresponsible politicians. They don't care that cities like Baltimore and St. Louis have it really bad right now because all they every hear about is Chicago. And as with other topics, the problematic ones will reject any new information you present that doesn't match their pre-determined conclusions.

If you try to discuss what "per-capita" means, it doesn't matter. They'll point to the fact that there were 100 murders without any regard to the fact that it may be out of a half million people or more. They won't acknowledge the different kinds of drug crimes that happen in their own towns like meth production.

The problematic people refuse to accept the fact that poor economic conditions lead to higher crime rates. They'll give the "get an education, get a better job, people flipping burgers shouldn't earn $15 / hour." arguments. They don't care because often they haven't experienced it, and even those who have lack the empathy to see that the impoverished people in the country aren't so different from the impoverished people in big cities.

I could continue this rant but I think I'll end here. I'm trying to be cautious about using the word "they" as a blanket statement. Not all people who are conservatives believe these things, but you can't deny that a fair portion do. It's hard for us all to find a common ground and speak the same language.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago

i mean I'm gonna be honest, I think conservatives at their core have an underlying belief in misogyny, transphobia, or racism that informs all their subsequent beliefs. It's their starting point. So when you try to get into very complicated things like how to set up urban planning to facilitate better transportation, conservatives are gonna come at that with their underlying biases on which humans are inherently better than others.

So that's gonna be a main reason for why discussing this stuff isn't going to seem like the same language. They start every thought with "but how does this help rich white people?"

[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago

I've even seem some claim the concept means parents and children will belong to different sectors and won't be allowed to see one another.

The conservative mind is a wild place galaxy-brain

[-] axont@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago

The only halfway good argument against 15 minute cities is that kids aren't safe on their own. Which is true in terms of how cities are currently set up where kids might have to cross a six lane highway to get to school. Or they might be forced to walk across someone's yard and the house could belong to a deranged racist with a gun just waiting to start trouble with whoever walks by.

But these types of problems are remedied by having more dense urban areas to begin with. I've been to Japan and China and one of the most striking differences over there are how you'll see kids walking around unaccompanied by adults. Kids exercising more independence and autonomy at a younger age is a good thing. Not to sound too boomer, but I think it instills a sense of community and responsibility into kids if they're not always reliant on their parents driving them everywhere until the age of 16.

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[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 6 points 9 months ago

How is "15 minute city" bad messaging? Like how does that term lead other conservatives to leap to complete dystopia where no one can leave there zone and they will be hunted for sport?

[-] SoyViking@hexbear.net 6 points 9 months ago

Because imposing Draconian border regimes and terrorising violence on those deemed inferior is exactly what they themselves would do.

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[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 46 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I recently moved to an apartment with decent walkability to basic neccesties and I feel far more free than a car has ever made me feel.

[-] toasteecup@lemmy.world 33 points 9 months ago

I'm helping! I'm helping! I'm helping you! God I loved sealab2021

[-] GraniteM@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

WELL HELLO CONSUMER, YES HELLO CONSUMER!

[-] toasteecup@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

Daddy needs some of his pick me up juice

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

Uh-oh!

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[-] stinerman@midwest.social 22 points 9 months ago

Oddly enough, Ellis Hedican (the voice of Stormy) was a Fox News contributor and overall conservative back when the show first ran.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

Well that sucks. I love Sealab.

[-] stinerman@midwest.social 6 points 9 months ago

I think he has changed his views since then.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I hope so.

EDIT: Wikipedia says: "He is the co-author of the New York Times bestseller The Party's Over: How the Extreme Right Hijacked the GOP and I Became a Democrat." So basically an 'enlightened centrist.' Better than before, I guess.

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[-] MiDaBa@lemmy.ml 20 points 9 months ago

We should do both.

[-] Steveanonymous@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Stormy is like a little otter. A sexy little otter 🦦

[-] stinerman@midwest.social 8 points 9 months ago

There's a black Stormy?

[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 9 points 9 months ago

"I'm regular Stormy!"

[-] verity_kindle@sh.itjust.works 17 points 9 months ago

Got a glorious and rare SL2021 meme, I'll vote for whatever you hippies want. Where's the booth.

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[-] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 9 months ago

Remember that old saying "every accusation from a Conservative is a confession"?

Well, the next time you see someone respond to densification or 15 minute cities on this level, it's because they were already thinking of ways to exterminate folks on the left.

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[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

I only have one issue with these types of cities.

I don't want to be that close to other people.

[-] NewNewAccount@lemmy.world 36 points 9 months ago

Many Americans are already dealing with the downsides of urban density but without the benefits of a walkable city.

[-] bigboig@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 9 months ago

I think of it like getting better public transport. Even if you don't use it, other people will and that will give you more space

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

In Houston, during the 60s, you could drive out into the wilderness once you passed 610.

But with urban sprawl all the way out to Conroe, Katy, and Rosenberg, what used to be a 15 minute drive has turned into hours in the car to escape the edge of the city.

Every new subdivision pushed the rural neighborhoods farther and farther away.

[-] nifty@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I feel the same way, I don’t mind people but in small, small, smaaaaaall doses. But cities like that are great for others, I don’t have to live there.

[-] RiderExMachina@lemmy.ml 14 points 9 months ago

Y'all might be imagining NYC levels of density and, while that's important, is definitely several steps further than what's needed to make America not terrible. Something like rowhouses or even 4-plexes would be an improvement, and that would, at max, only add 50-100 more people to the average city block.

If you already live in a neighborhood, you would really only be interacting with your neighbors as you do now. It's not as if your entire city is going to be in the same 15 minute stretch.

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[-] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 4 points 9 months ago

Well, yes, but not because of the urban redesign.

Memes