242
submitted 10 months ago by ardi60@reddthat.com to c/technology@lemmy.ml
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[-] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 180 points 10 months ago

Imo Reddit has been the winner of the 3rd party apps and fuck spez protests. The users came crawling back. A few of us went to lemmy and formed quality communities, but for the most part, a large majority are on there.

[-] criticon@lemmy.ca 77 points 10 months ago

Did they? Other than /nfl most of the communities I followed went to shit very quickly and haven't recovered. They are mostly bots talking to bots or the same questions and post over and over with minimal new content

[-] FenrirIII@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

For me, it was politics that sank Reddit. I was banned from a half dozen news forums for criticism of the IDF in Gaza at the beginning of what most people now acknowledge to be an ethnic cleansing. I reported every account calling for murder and genocide of Palestinians, which is against the Reddit TOS. They permanently banned me for "report abuse" for doing their jobs for them. They have obviously shown that there's no freedom of speech, even when you follow the rules, if it goes against the feelings of the administration and the unelected moderators. Fiefdoms ruled by angry internet trolls shouldn't get an IPO.

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[-] maegul@lemmy.ml 49 points 10 months ago

Similarly with twitter and mastodon. Generally, that's fine ... smaller niche online spaces are a good thing (as many who've remained have discovered I suspect).

But in the end, for those who see this fediverse project as a mission to "take back the web" ... so far only pretty minor movement has been made on that front. To the point that IMO I wouldn't be surprised if Twitter etc just "win" and the whole "alternative" social media thing stays "alternative" and relatively small. If there's a chance of this, I'd say to fediverse advocates that they should maybe rethink what the fediverse is and what it's good and not good for, because there's a real chance here that the fediverse kinda dropped the ball, especially mastodon which has been going strong for a while now.

[-] OpenStars@startrek.website 15 points 10 months ago

I've never used Mastodon, but from what I've heard it's an entirely different ballgame where you basically need to go where the people are. e.g. artists seeking commission work need more rather than less people, and if you want to follow a particular someone, you go to where they are not the other way around.

And if their servers have anywhere close to the level of technical glitches that we do here on Lemmy... well it is quite off-putting, especially to non technically minded people.

[-] maegul@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'm not sure they have technical glitches in the same way lemmy does. Interestingly, the difficulties people have, I think, are because federated social media is actually a bad non-idea technology to use for a twitter clone.

So much either doesn't work how you'd expect or involves new problems that all together they start to defeat the point for many. For example, replies to a post. The author of the post sees all of the replies. But replies aren't actually federated unless certain conditions are met based on whether someone on your instance follows the person writing the reply. As a result the author of a post that receives many replies has to manage/tolerate a bunch of replies that have no awareness of the fact that they're just repeating what has already been said, sometimes many times over. For people replying to a post from a small/niche instance, they basically don't see any of the other replies, which just makes for bad content for them, but also means they constantly risking being really annoying people which in turn effectively punishes small instances. This is generally referred to as "context collapse", and yea, it's something kinda extraordinary when the core feature of a social media platform actively destroys the context of conversations.

Lemmy doesn't have this problem because its based on groups where the whole premise is that the whole conversation gets federated, and for that reason I think a reddit clone or a forum or a youtube-clone (or anything based on groups, sub-reddits or channels) is a better fit on the fediverse.

The other friction mastodon has is that, as a twitter-clone or microblogging platform, its core mechanic is following people and allowing people to form their own network of connections and friendships. But once you've got federation and instances in the mix, where defederation happens, then you have this often completely separate dynamic (ie the relations between instances) capable of completely slicing your personal social network in many destructive ways. Often this happens without people hearing about it (as there aren't mechanics for notifying people of defederations AFAIU), so that they have to find out after some time to realise that they hadn't heard anything from a whole bunch of friends and were wondering what had happened. Moreover, what such people can then do to re-connect with those friends is rather non-trivial. It's probably the major draw back of fedi-drama, that the majority of people affected by it don't benefit from it and would prefer to just be on the big instance (mastodon.social) that no one really defederates from or just go back to twitter.

EDIT (more ranting):

The way someone I like (as a person on social media) put it, after giving mastodon a good shot, was that mastodon misunderstands what people want from social media, that mastodon puts independence over socialising when people prioritise it the other way around ... the whole point is to connect and converse, not to run your own instance and make sure you've defederated from everyone who has it coming.

Now there's the whole issue of making sure someone vulnerable to abuse is able to ensure their own safety and happiness from would-be assholes and abusers and even those eager to voice unwelcome, abrasive and triggering points of view which are generally tolerable because they're the mainstream. Federation across instances can help with this ... but can also make it worse because anyone can talk to you from any instance over which you have no control or information until it's too late. In many ways, decentralisation isn't great for these problems and creates new problems that a centralised form of social media simply doesn't have (not least of which being that the whole thing is about copying you and your posts out to everything on the network). It's for this reason that BIPOC left mastodon and went back to twitter, because to them, mastodon was the racist/facist place, not twitter. In light of that phenomenon, it's worth considering the perspective that decentralised social media might be a bit of a weird idea and rightly seen as a bit of a fanatical and even a bit of a right-wing or libertarian movement.

In the case of group-based platforms like lemmy and forums however, I think it makes much more sense. Many independent forums are out there, and have been and hopefully will be for a long time. Why not contribute Open Source software for such things (such as lemmy) and enable them to connect to each other however they wish.

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[-] HubertManne@kbin.social 33 points 10 months ago

meh.im happier as a member of the federation and honestly if we got all the reddit users it would lower the quality fast.

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[-] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago

I mean, that was never seriously in doubt. The days of massive site migrations happening overnight are long over.

What matters is the momentum.

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[-] eek2121@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

No we didn’t. I happily left reddit the day Apollo stopped. They also lost my premium subscription.

I also stopped Twitter when musk took over. I use Bluesky or Mastodon and find both platforms to be superior.

Sure, some folks may have, but many of us have not. Does that matter to Reddit? probably not. Do I care? not really.

Modern Reddit is unusable, and old reddit isn’t mobile friendly.

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[-] SpicyLizards@reddthat.com 116 points 10 months ago

Sell it to musk, finish the job

[-] photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 56 points 10 months ago

Can't wait for him to rebrand it as Y

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[-] nicetriangle@kbin.social 107 points 10 months ago

Sure feels like they timed this IPO pretty badly. I think the ideal time to strike on this would have been a few years ago... Based on market conditions anyway. Reddit itself may just not have had their ducks lined up enough, but that's their problem, not the stock market's.

  • Tech stocks trading sideways for the last year or two
  • The interest rate money printer got shut off and cash is not cheap anymore
  • Seemingly all the major new tech stock investment interest is circling around stuff like AI
  • Federated alternatives are slowly building steam and people seem to have gotten pretty salty about corporate social media
  • The pandemic is more or less over and people have pulled back from being chronically online somewhat (this is my guess, I don't have data to back it up)

Also what exactly is the monetization strategy? Ads I guess? More catering towards creating corporate "synergy" with the Reddit community? Selling user data/content? So basically making the place suck considerably worse for users is what it looks like to me.

[-] Ross_audio@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

Monetisation?

Licensing the site to AI when there's finally a ruling they can't just scrape the internet for training data while ignoring copyright.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 18 points 10 months ago

I was told reddit has already been scraped for AI and all sorts of stuff. There is very little new value to sell.

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[-] Cratermaker@discuss.tchncs.de 82 points 10 months ago

I've already left, but seeing them marching towards an IPO makes me even happier with my decision. I just fear that the mountains of helpful troubleshooting and advice on Reddit will be locked away forever soon, while the rest of the web falls to SEO and AI-generated nonsense text...

[-] LittleBorat2@lemmy.ml 60 points 10 months ago

Reddit Was the only site Google could effectively search. Rip googling questions and adding reddit.

[-] AnonStoleMyPants@sopuli.xyz 32 points 10 months ago

Man, and it works great. It is waaaaay more common to find good answers to a question from a bunch of randoms on the Internet than trying to get an actual answer from a random website. Sometimes you find bs but you can usually quite quickly filter it out, and it gives a good basis from which to then continue to search on the topic.

[-] Death_Equity@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

I hate that Reddit is so good for answering questions. The alternatives are usually AI written unhelpful trash.

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[-] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 79 points 10 months ago

Good fucking luck with that

[-] DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz 66 points 10 months ago

for that bot-infested shitposting dump?

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

Pardon me, but I believe you mean that bot AND AD invested shitposting dump.

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[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 56 points 10 months ago

The markets are insane. There is no way Reddit is worth 5 billion.

[-] ares35@kbin.social 19 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

watch the reddit ipo be a catalyst for a stock market crash.

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 30 points 10 months ago

To me it’s a sign of how out of whack the stock market is right now. Lemmy created the Reddit experience at a fraction of the cost. Yet Reddit spends millions a year doing it.

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[-] pixxelkick@lemmy.world 49 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I 100% can see it easily selling for that much.

You want to know why it's worth that much?

Petabytes of raw training Data for LLMs. Arguably atm reddit us one of the better gold mines of LLM training data on the internet, bazillion of posts already formatted as post-response chains, which is the exact type if format an LLM wants to train on.

Can you imagine how valuable those servers loaded with posts are to a company like OpenAI, Google, or Microsoft?

5 billion is quite reasonable to harvest every reddit post that has ever been made ever and cut it off from your competitors.

[-] MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca 61 points 10 months ago

The worst part is that ai chatbots will start responding like redditers. I can't wait for chatgpt to regale me with a story about his dad beating him with jumper cables, or jolly ranchers, or hell in a cell.

[-] Thorry84@feddit.nl 22 points 10 months ago
[-] isthingoneventhis@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

And then asked "AITA?"

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[-] duncesplayed@lemmy.one 38 points 10 months ago

Has reddit not already been scraped? With all of that information exposed bare on the public Internet for decades, and apparently so valuable, I find it hard to believe that everybody's just been sitting there twiddling their thumbs, saying "boy I sure hope they decide to sell us that data one day so that we don't have to force an intern to scrape it for us".

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[-] LittleBorat2@lemmy.ml 37 points 10 months ago

This data was out in the open for a decade and still is. People could train their llm without problems.

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[-] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 45 points 10 months ago

Ah... so they're shorting it.

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[-] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 34 points 10 months ago

$5 Billion for a chronically unprofitable, niche social media platform in an already crowded field. Yeah, Ok. You'd get a better return on your investment if you just burned the money for heat.

[-] diffcalculus@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

"niche" website in a crowded field....that is also the top 9th most visited website in the world, above tik tok.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-visited_websites

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[-] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 33 points 10 months ago

Reddit is such a nice example of capitalism turning a genuinely nice thing into a pile of garbage.

[-] Nougat@kbin.social 29 points 10 months ago
[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 22 points 10 months ago

You can buy puts on the IPO price.

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[-] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 28 points 10 months ago

Everyone here are thinking $5 billion means Reddit won. Wasn’t their evaluation at $15 at one point?

[-] Threeme2189@lemm.ee 34 points 10 months ago

If the went from fifteen bucks to five billion, yes they totally won 😉

[-] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 23 points 10 months ago

Well I guess I fully set myself up for that one lol

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[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 27 points 10 months ago

Meanwhile tech is hemorrhaging.

Good luck Reddit! 😂

[-] NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social 21 points 10 months ago
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[-] ulkesh@beehaw.org 17 points 10 months ago

Would love to see this become the fastest IPO to tank.

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this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2024
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