"I'm vegan, except for meat, because the meat industry already exists, so the cow is already dead. When the meat industry stops existing I'll stop eating meat. That's veganism."
Yeah that's around how I felt. Even if leather is a by-product of the meat industry, I don't care since a meat industry shouldn't exist.
Why would they want to contribute to something that comes from the already existing meat industry, and how do they justify consuming that being different than consuming meat itself?
I don't know, I was just caught in a weird feeling where my veganism was getting accused of environmental destruction because of my shoes. Yeah it's probably the case that synthetic leather doesn't last as long as animal leather, but animal leather shouldn't be made. Polyurethane probably also shouldn't be made.
But I'm not going to wear a dead animals skin. I don't think a compromise needs to exist between environmental protection and animal liberation. We can do both.
If that person is supposedly vegan, that argument makes no sense. Lots of things would be acceptable for vegans if you just say ”oh, it's a byproduct of the already existing meat industry so it's OK”, including all dairy products.
Besides, the whole point is that there shouldn't be a meat industry at all, not finding excuses to fund it.
Meat and dairy demand vastly exceeds the demand for leather and therefore drives the production (raising and killing) of cows so aside from some very niche cases leather is a byproduct which would still be produced regardless of whether anyone actually bought any leather shoes. This person's argument isn't entirely crazy but it also isn't entirely correct since obviously the supplementary income from leather is still having some impact on cattle production.
Dairy is not a byproduct of the existing industry meat industry since different cows are raised for dairy than for meat however meat specifically from dairy cows is a byproduct of the dairy industry. So taking this argument to it's extreme you could eat meat from dairy cows or chicken meat from egg layers and be vegan which obviously is absurd.
I expect this person is in some form of climatarian to freegan pipeline and hasn't been exposed to animal liberation theory so much as environmental concerns.
I don't think it really matters. For a vegan, following "the cow's already been killed for meat" can lead to some absurd outcomes. For a dietary non-ethical vegans it makes perfect sense. For an ethical vegan, it would not.
Yeah there's one person I know who keeps asking if vegans can eat roadkill, since "the animal is already dead." It's absurd.
Nothing wrong with your shoes being plastic there are not really vegan alternatives that fit the bill most of the time.
Every single animal product is from an already dead animal (or one that will be killed soon by the industry in order for it to be profitable). Leather isn't special in this regard and you can say the same things about meat, milk, hair, bone, etc. Saying leather is a byproduct of the meat industry is itself a bit silly as the leather industry isn't just there due to people eating meat, it is an actually valuable commodity on its own and there are animals that are raised for their skin/leather and not their meat (e.g. snakes). It's all interconnected and there's no point to trying to read the tea leaves on exactly which animal products would count as "driving" the system and which would not.
I've known vegans that buy used leather products because they don't directly incentivize the industry. I personally don't gatekeep those vegans on that issue. But just straight-up going out of your way to get the animal product? That's not exactly a personal vegan choice lol.
Animal leather isn't really any better for the environment because the tanning process uses a ton of chemicals like chromium that are toxic, so if they decompose they leech chemicals into the soil, and the manufacturers tend to locate production in places like India, Bangladesh, Haiti, etc where they can get away with dumping huge amounts of chemical waste into the environment and can easily abuse workers due to low pay and lax health and safety regulations. And that's on top of the farm animals already contributing massive amounts to pollution and greenhouse gasses.
So unless their leather is artisanally handcrafted buffalo hide from a First Nations tribe that uses every part of the animal, they're delusional.
Yeah this was my suspicion but I couldn't articulate it in the moment. That person's point didn't even make sense from an environmentalist perspective.
vegan
:vegan-liberation:
Welcome to /c/vegan and congratulations on your first steps toward overcoming liberalism and ascending to true leftist moral superiority.
Rules
No plant-based diet bullshit or promotion of plant-based capitalism.
Veganism isn't about you, it's about historical materialist anti-speciesism, anti-racist animalization, and animal liberation. Ethical vegans only.No omni apologists or carnists.
Babystepping is for libs, and we're not here to pat you on the back. Good faith questions and debate about how to fight for animal liberation are allowed.No advocating violence to any species for any reason.
If you think this is negotiable GTFO. This includes but is not limited to animal testing, slaughter, and mass euthanasia. Anything that promotes speciesism or the commodification of animals will be removed.Use Content Warnings and NSFW tags for triggering content.
Especially if a comrade requests it.Questions about diet belong in
c/food. It's also a great place to share recipes.In all sections of the site, you must follow the
Hexbear.net Code of Conduct.
Resources
Animal liberation and direct action
- Animal Liberation Press (ALF)
- Wiki on Ethical Veganism
- Wiki on the Animal Liberation Front
- Wiki on Total Liberation
- Different approaches to AL direct action
- Earth First! manual and tactics
- Support prisoners of conscience: Vegan Prisoners Support Group (UK)
- If someone tells you to put some paint on your hands, tag some buildings and then go turn yourself into the police - your "rebellion" is a fucking op
Read theory, libs
- 18 Theses on Marxism and Animal Liberation
- Racism as Zoological Witchcraft: A Guide to Getting Out
- Animal Liberation
- The Death of Nature
- The Case for Animal Rights
- Anarchism and Animal Liberation
- Total Liberation
- The Unbearable Whiteness of Milk
- Speciesism as a Precondition to Justice
- Beasts of Burden: Animal and Disability Liberation
- Citations Needed on media portrayals of animal rights activists
- The Jungle
Vegan 101 & FAQs
- Black Vegans Rock resources page
- Animal Rights: The Abolitionist Approach FAQs
- 30 Non-Vegan Excuses & How to Respond to Them
- Guide to justifications for harming and exploiting animals
- Your Vegan Fallacy Is
- The Radical Left’s Top 10 Objections to Veganism (And Why They Suck)
- Animal Liberation Front FAQs
If you have any great resources or theory you think belong in this sidebar, please message one of the comm's mods
Take B12. :vegan-edge: