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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world

Though the Windows thing was really funny ๐Ÿ˜‚.

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[-] bort@sopuli.xyz 95 points 11 months ago

the linux-file-deletion is used as a example for good software design. It has a very simple interface with little room for error while doing exactly what the caller intended.

In John Ousterhout's "software design philosophy" a chapter is called "define errors out of existence". In windows "delete" is defined as "the file is gone from the HDD". So it must wait for all processes to release that file. In Linux "unlink" is defined as "the file can't be accessed anymore". So the file is gone from the filesystem immediately and existing file-handles from other processes will life on.

The trade-off here is: "more errors for the caller of delete" vs "more errors due to filehandles to dead files". And as it turns out, the former creates issues for both developers and for users, while the later creates virtually no errors in practice.

[-] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 116 points 11 months ago

doing exactly what the caller intended.

No, no. Exactly what the user told it to do. Not what they intended. There's a difference.

[-] hstde@feddit.de 36 points 11 months ago

Exactly type rm -rf / instead of rm -rf ./ and you ducked up. Well you messed up a long time ago by having privileges to delete everything, but then again, you are human, some mistakes will be made.

[-] taladar@sh.itjust.works 35 points 11 months ago

Deleting the current directory via ./ seems contrived since you would just use . or more likely the directory name from outside the directory. What does happen is rm -rf ${FOO}/ while ${FOO} is an empty string.

[-] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 19 points 11 months ago

Not sure if you're referencing the Steam incident, but Steam did exactly that: https://www.theregister.com/2015/01/17/scary_code_of_the_week_steam_cleans_linux_pcs/

[-] NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 11 months ago

Even so, . and / are right next to each other so it's a likely typo. You might press enter before you catch it.

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[-] PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk 5 points 11 months ago

yup, did that one on a server at work. had to go cap in hand to my manager to get him to fix it

[-] Technofrood@feddit.uk 17 points 11 months ago

Don't modern versions of rm block calling on / unless you pass a separate flag?

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[-] lurker2718@lemmings.world 7 points 11 months ago

Yes, the file itself (so the data and inode) is not gone as long as the handles live on. Only the reference is gone. You canstill recover the file. https://superuser.com/questions/283102/how-to-recover-deleted-file-if-it-is-still-opened-by-some-process#600743

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[-] RealFknNito@lemmy.world 57 points 11 months ago

I like the windows delete philosophy of asking me before I delete something.

I fucking hate the windows delete philosophy of telling me I don't have access after I said yes.

I'm this close to daily driving as Sadmin

[-] Agility0971@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Better would be to delete without confirmation but being able to quickly reverse it with Ctrl+Z

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[-] Koof_on_the_Roof@lemmy.world 54 points 11 months ago

One drive has a trash for the trash. Iโ€™m still not convinced those files are gone after the 2nd empty, I think they just donโ€™t show the other trash cans

[-] LostXOR@fedia.io 17 points 11 months ago

It's trash cans all the way down.

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 14 points 11 months ago

The cloud is just someone else's trash can

[-] BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net 7 points 11 months ago

You know what they say, one man's trash...

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[-] Swarfega@lemm.ee 9 points 11 months ago

Outlook on Exchange is like this. You can delete stuff to the Deleted Items directory. If you delete it from there it goes into another area called 'Recover deleted items'.

[-] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 45 points 11 months ago

GUI file managers generally have "Trash" feature as well.

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[-] flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works 44 points 11 months ago

The windows shell has really gone downhill in recent years, with spontaneous file locks and random hangs

It's always the AV...

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 29 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm so annoyed when I tell rm to delete a terabyte of data and it's nowhere near instant. I'd have probably gone insane if I was using Windows.

[-] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

1TB for Windows... depends on file size, but let's presume you have 1TB of Word documents... just hit Enter and go watch the Matrix trilogy.

[-] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

"what are you trying to tell me? I'll be able to select 'yes' when it asks me if I'm sure I want to delete?"

"No, Neo. I'm saying when you switch to Linux you won't have to."

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[-] don@lemm.ee 22 points 11 months ago

Left side: I regularly go bowling with the demon core

Right side: I have read the demon coreโ€™s wiki 314 times

[-] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

314 ๐Ÿค”... like as in Pi*100?

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[-] CriticalMiss@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

I never deleted my root system with rm but I did dd go sda instead of sdb and ended up losing my data.

[-] Rin@lemm.ee 7 points 11 months ago

Holy shit, me too. 6TiB poof

[-] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

With great power comes great responsibility. Do check twice what you write.

Jokes aside, it has happened to almost everyone... and then you learn to QUADRUPLE CHECK dd commands.

[-] Eccitaze@yiffit.net 5 points 11 months ago

I haven't accidentally deleted a bunch of data yet (which, considering 99% of my interaction with Linux is when I'm SSH'd into a user's server, I am very paranoid about not doing), but I have run fsck on a volume without mounting the read/write flashcache with dirty blocks on it first.

Oops.

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[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 15 points 11 months ago
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[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 15 points 11 months ago

Now wonder, which one is will be preferred by people who aren't tech savvy.

[-] porl@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

They are not likely to be using the terminal. Pretty much every graphical file browser will ask for confirmation upon delete, and many will use a rubbish bin by default.

[-] Ziglin@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

To be fair, assuming you are not using a wastebasket which comes pre installed in a lot of distros, you still need the right permissions to delete files that belong to the system and if you're using rm you have to use the -rf option to remove a folder and it's contents.

[-] jbk@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 11 months ago
[-] maiskanzler@feddit.de 8 points 11 months ago

Btrfs snapshots/subvolumes can now also be deleted with rm. It's no longer necessary to use 'btrfs subvolume delete'

[-] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Really?

As I always say, you get the best linux info from linux memes ๐Ÿ˜.

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[-] tfw_no_toiletpaper@feddit.de 12 points 11 months ago

If you're going for cli, windows also can do rm -r -Force

[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 20 points 11 months ago

Or just do Shift Delete in Explorer.

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[-] Hupf@feddit.de 15 points 11 months ago

Use the --force Luke

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[-] IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Every time I see I've of these memes my mind goes straight to infomercials.

[-] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 8 points 11 months ago

Oh well. Didn't really like my mum that much anyways ๐Ÿ˜ข

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[-] Heavybell@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Is that actually true? Does Windows check every file with Defender before deleting it?

[-] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Not just every file deleted, every file written to disk as well (downloaded, extracted from an archive, whatever).

It's also how most AV software works, except Defender is slow AF.

[-] vox@sopuli.xyz 8 points 11 months ago

also, defender is synchronous by default (e.g. nothing gets written until it gets scanned, and scanning parallelization is limited), and can only act asynchronously (aka write first, then queue check) on "trusted dev drives" (aka ReFS-based virtual vhdx partitions aimed at developers as a solution to horrible ntfs throughput, especially if defender is enabled)

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[-] HStone32@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Huh. All that security, and yet there are still so many viruses capable of infecting windows.

[-] deur@feddit.nl 7 points 11 months ago

Huh.... all that immune system yet there are still so many viruses capable of infecting humans.

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[-] EnderMB@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

One of my first experiences with Linux at university was watching a classmate install Slackware, and then (for a laugh) dragging everything into the recycle bin.

They got a passing grade, because the lecturer saw their working installation, but they learned a valuable lesson in Linux that if you delete something, it'll fucking delete it.

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this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2024
640 points (96.0% liked)

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