256
submitted 5 months ago by Blaze@reddthat.com to c/til@lemmy.ca
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 125 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

When it comes to English the problem can be split into two: the origin of the word, and its usage to refer to the planet.

The origin of the word is actually well known - English "earth" comes from Proto-Germanic *erþō "ground, soil", that in turn comes from Proto-Indo-European *h₁ér-teh₂. That *h₁ér- root pops up in plenty words referring to soil and land in IE languages; while that *-teh₂ nouns for states of being, so odds are that the word ultimately meant "the bare soil" or similar.

Now, the usage of the word for the planet gets trickier, since this metaphor - the whole/planet by the part/soil - pops up all the time. Even for non-Indo-European languages like:

  • Basque - "Lurra" Earth is simply "lur" soil with a determiner
  • Tatar - "Zemin" Earth, planet vs. "zemin" earth, soil
  • Greenlandic - "nuna" for both

The furthest from that that I've seen was Nahuatl calling the planet "tlalticpactl" over the land - but even then that "tlal[li]" at the start is land, soil.

The metaphor is so popular, but so popular, that it becomes hard to track where it originated - because it likely originated multiple times. I wouldn't be surprised for example if English simply inherited it "as is", as German "Erde" behaves the same. The same applies to the Romance languages with Latin "Terra", they simply inherited the word with the double meaning and called it a day.

And as to why Earth has become the accepted term rather than ‘terra’, ‘orbis’ or some variant on ‘mundus’, well, that’s a tougher question to answer.

In English it's simply because "Earth" is its native word. Other languages typically don't use this word.

[-] OhmsLawn@lemmy.world 32 points 5 months ago

Casually dropping Basque into your comment: +1

[-] Blaze@reddthat.com 14 points 5 months ago
[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 7 points 5 months ago

You're welcome!

[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 9 points 5 months ago

In Chinese it's 地球 which is basically "earth (as in dirt) ball"

[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 27 points 5 months ago

That ⟨地球⟩ is perhaps the only exception that we're damn sure on how Earth got its name. The guy who coined the expression was a priest of the Papal States called Matteo Ricci, living in Ming around 1600. He did a living translating works back and forth between Chinese and Latin, and calqued that expression from Latin orbis terrarum - roughly "the globe of soils", or "the ball of earths".

[-] CodexArcanum@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Ancient Chinese mysticism (yijing, wuxing, daoism) have the concept of earth as either kūn (field, like of grass) or di (earth, like soil). I believe both are 地. This is in contrast to Heaven (tian) which is above. I believe both were conceived of as infinite parallel planes.

天地人 (tiān-dì-rén) are Heaven, Earth, and Human; and were sometimes seen as the 3 primal forces of reality.

[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 2 points 5 months ago

Thanks for the further info! That 地 alone does follow the pattern of the other languages.

Your explanation gives Ricci's odd calque a lot more sense - he's using the old term, but highlighting that it's a ball, not an infinite plane. As in, he was trying to be accurate to the sources, and he could only do it through that calque.

[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 months ago

Woah, that's awesome! I had no idea about the etymology. Thanks for sharing!

[-] niktemadur@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Nahuatl calling the planet

Even the term "planet" here is noisy, as it implies knowledge of an orb floating and/or spinning in space.

Maybe a better (less modern scientific) term in this case would be "world", which could have been "what I have seen and have heard about, plus the regions beyond where dragons lie", as an equivalent to "one, two, three, many".

[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Fair point - notlahtlacōl. "World" does seem more accurate.

I wouldn't be surprised if modern Nahuatl varieties used tlālticpactli to refer to the planet itself. (Still, my example is from Classical Nahuatl, so your correction is spot on.)

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] PineRune@lemmy.world 61 points 5 months ago

TLDR: article is clickbait title, which goes on to explain the etymological origin of the name "Earth" coming from Old English, and other dead languages have other names for Earth such as "Terra".

The oldest possible record for the term "Earth" comes from Proto-Indo-European "Er-", which means ground or soil.

[-] Blaze@reddthat.com 18 points 5 months ago

Thanks for correcting.

I was thinking about changing the link and title with this one, is it better? https://sciencenotes.org/how-did-earth-get-its-name/

[-] PineRune@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

I like how this article ends up describing the difference between naming Earth as opposed to other planets and the more in-depth etymological explenations of all the names.

Sorry, I find etymology interesting, and the original post caught my attention, so I felt compelled to point a few things out.

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 5 months ago

But that doesn't explain how we treated to call this planet by the name we give to dirt. We could have called the earth "rocks" or "sand" instead, but no. When did we realise we are sitting on a floating ball of dirt?

[-] KISSmyOSFeddit@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

The dirt is what makes plants grow, which is kinda important to people of all cultures.

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 5 months ago

OK, but that doesn't answer my question of how it became the name of the planet.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 49 points 5 months ago

I believe that it was a whale at free fall, falling along side a bowl of petunias

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 14 points 5 months ago

One of my favorite lines comes from those books.

"The ships hung in the sky much in the way that bricks don't."

[-] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Yeah! Its right in the start! After that you get kind of used to them but they are still there! brilliant wordplay!

[-] sanguinepar@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

Oh no, not again.

[-] urska@lemmy.ca 40 points 5 months ago

Yes we do know, It comes from the Latin language during the roman empire. Terra which means soil/ground in Latin. it deviated to Terra in italian and portuguese, tierra in spanish and terre in french.

English was influenced by french so they took the meaning of earth from there. The word earth in english comes from old english or irish I dont remember correctly.

[-] PineRune@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago

Earth comes from OE, which comes from Proto-Germanic, which comes from Proto-Indo-European. Seperate from the Latin "Terra".

[-] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

Yeah, earth in Dutch is "aarde" and in German it's "erde", which both sound related to "earth".

However, it originally must have meant soil/dirt/land, long before those humans were even aware of the concept of planets. So who was the first to call Earth after earth or Terre after terre? Probably the first persons to figure out that they were living on a planet is my guess, it makes sense to name something after the part that you can see imo.

[-] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

You're aware the word we're discussing is "Earth" right?

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

But was Latin the origin or just another step in the process?

[-] kvartsdan@lemmynsfw.com 25 points 5 months ago

We don't know who named most things, so that is hardly surprising. We typically only know who named recent phenomena.

[-] Steve@startrek.website 21 points 5 months ago
[-] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 35 points 5 months ago

As a soil scientist, I politely request you stop using that word.

Or else.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 6 points 5 months ago

Dirt? Do you mean the mythical home planet of humanity in Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat series?

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] ultratiem@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 months ago

Wait what? It dates back a thousand years? So what did people call the planet they lived on in 200 AD? Or 500 BC? Surely they had a word for it before then. Or did they feel they lived ON the universe?

[-] Steve@startrek.website 4 points 5 months ago

They lived on dirt. Thats it.

[-] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 5 points 5 months ago
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] uebquauntbez@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Dirt will be a term for the remains of mankind in future civilizations. So much dirt left from those f**kheads. /s

[-] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

Thag. Lucky bastard. Got to name two things.

[-] Window_Error_Noises@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

I wish he'd also called it planet Thagomizer, instead.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Probably the same guy who named the River Avon.

English: *points at river* "What is this?"
Celtic native: "it's a river, bro"
English: "Then we shall call it the River River." *points at ground* "What is this?"
Native: "it's the ground, dirt, EARTH."
English: "Well golly fucking gosh, I have the perfect name"

[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 19 points 5 months ago

I've seen worse.

Like. There's a Spanish city called Cartagena. And a neighbourhood in that city called Nueva Cartagena.

What's Spanish "Nueva"? New.

What's "Cartagena"? It was inherited from Latin "Carthago Nova", then univerbated. That Latin "nova" is the same as Spanish "nueva", new.

Where did "Carthago" come from? Ultimately from Phoenician, 𐤒𐤓𐤕-𐤇𐤃𐤔𐤕/qrt-ḥdšt. That 𐤇𐤃𐤔𐤕/ḥdšt means city, and the 𐤒𐤓𐤕/qrt means new.

The neighbourhood name is literally "new new new city".

[-] Blaze@reddthat.com 7 points 5 months ago
[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)
[-] SpikesOtherDog@ani.social 3 points 5 months ago

Tautological place names.

[-] bstix@feddit.dk 6 points 5 months ago

The article missed the ancient Greek "Gaia" which is older than the mentioned examples.

[-] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 months ago

Gaia also has the same meaning, ground or earth

load more comments (6 replies)
[-] reddig33@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

The Cylons named it.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
256 points (90.8% liked)

Today I Learned (TIL)

6536 readers
113 users here now

You learn something new every day; what did you learn today?

/c/til is a community for any true knowledge that you would like to share, regardless of topic or of source.

Share your knowledge and experience!

Rules

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS