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TIL that in Sparta, after the wedding, brides would have their hair cut short and be dressed in men's clothing so that they would appear less threatening to their groom during the wedding night. (en.wikipedia.org)
submitted 2 months ago by Don_Dickle@lemmy.world to c/til@lemmy.world
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[-] wjrii@lemmy.world 99 points 2 months ago

So this claim seems well sourced, but I had to look it up because my bullshit detector always perks up when Sparta is discussed.

The surviving written sources are limited and largely from a non-Spartan viewpoint. Anton Powell wrote that to say the written sources are "'not without problems'... as an understatement would be hard to beat".

By Roman times, when a more organized and centralized polity was creating a pan-Mediterranean culture that had a lot to do with which works ended up preserved, Sparta was pretty much a theme park shell of its former self, and its former self is probably not so amazing anyway. In particular, their unusually thorough and unbalanced slave economy is overlooked when lionizing them, and their military record is rather underwhelming, possibly due to the incredible inefficiencies, even by ancient Greek standards, of said slave economy.

[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 41 points 2 months ago

They really do get a lot more reverence today than they deserve. Like, I get most historical cultures don't stack up the best with modern moral standards applied to them, but like, based on what I understand about Sparta, if the place were somehow transplanted through history to the modern day as it's own country, it would probably end up some sanctioned pariah state out of sheer disgust for how it treats it's own citizenry and handles it's foreign diplomacy.

[-] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 47 points 2 months ago

A highly militaristic society that isn't all that strong compared to other militaries, that treats it's people and outsiders poorly, and has glaringly obvious issues with its governance, all with an air of superiority and an emphasis on never appearing weak?

...Was Sparta just North Korea?

[-] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Comes with intestinal parasites and doesn't speak English.

The evidence just keeps adding up

[-] ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Thought you were gonna say Russia n.g.l. (based on what’s been seen in the recent military special operation)

[-] ben_dover@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago

the description would work just fine for the USA too

[-] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 2 months ago

The fact that folks vote you down without engaging speaks volumes. The npc angry meme comes to mind.

From an outside perspective the US definitely ticks those boxes. Maybe someone can explain what doesnt.

[-] Demdaru@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

Nobody wants to feed the troll, simple. But eh.

  • Highly militaristic Check
  • Isn't that strong Eh, just beating every other contestant with either tech, experience or both.
  • Treats it's people and outsider poorly MMMMM, okay, for EU standards yeah, but for global ones? They're mid.
  • Obvious problems with governance . . . nnnnnyeaah...
  • Air of superiority Yeah. Except not really. Ya all are dropping it more and more as time goes.
  • Never appearing weak It's justified tho.

So overall, yeah, 3,5/6. 0,5 for treating people part. Defo not sparta...i mean, if they vote Trump and I'll have to update this but eh.

[-] luciferofastora@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 months ago

The USA doesn't have a slave caste making up 80% of its population that it ritually declares war on every year. They aren't quite as bad as Sparta.

Yet.

[-] Don_Dickle@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

Now you make me question the movie 300 and what I learned in grade school.

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

300 is entirely fantasy, the motivation of the story is that Sparta had a long important holiday that always landed on the same predictable days, and if anyone attacked their allies the attack was going to be at the start of that long holiday so that one army didn't show up, and they missed out on some very important battles, so at some point when this happened again, they sent out 300 men to do something for the war effort, and holding a bottle neck while a storm wiped out most of the threat was heavily publicized to counter the 'fucking Spartans and their several days long fucking holiday that isn't even on a lunar cycle so everyone fucking know exactly when it happens never Zesu bolted ass showing up with their little skirts and manly open mouth kissing army' kind of sentiment.

[-] djsaskdja@reddthat.com 4 points 2 months ago

You’re allowed to use periods you know.

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Proofreading is the last retreat of cowards!

[-] kambusha@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago

Madness?

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 37 points 2 months ago

Surrrre that’s the reason

[-] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago

You should read the article, being bi was very much a part of their culture and not a trivial joke.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 16 points 2 months ago

I was being sarcastic but I was in no way whatsoever joking

[-] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

OK, no harm. It very much read as a snide joke.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 16 points 2 months ago

Ha, yeah, I get it. “lol they gay” is usually a joke. In this case it is not, as you mentioned:

In Sparta [...] the cropping of the bride’s hair and transvestism likely aimed to transform her temporarily into an adolescent Spartan boy – a less threatening figure to the groom, who probably had made his own transition to adulthood via a close emotional and sexual relationship with an older male

It is just what was up

[-] VelvetStorm@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

So the adult men fucked little boys and that was seen as a normal and good thing?

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 months ago

The Greeks invented orgies, the Romans came up with the idea of inviting women.

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 1 points 2 months ago

"Women? Ugh, take them away!" - The Greeks in BC times

[-] finickydesert@lemmy.ml 29 points 2 months ago

Either tomboy culture was steering or that they weren't used to being with women

[-] Rakonat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Well they are Greek.

this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024
155 points (95.3% liked)

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