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I don’t think I realized just how bad Islamophobia and racism towards Arab people is in the US until recently (hexbear.net)

submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by CleverOleg@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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Of course, I knew Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism (really, those two concepts are inseparable and feed each other) were very prevalent in American society going back a long time, with it really ratcheting up after 9/11. But ever since the Zionist entity’s terrorist pager attack last month, the sheer depth, pervasiveness, and how it’s just out there in the open and considered perfectly acceptable has genuinely surprised me. It seems to have started with that attack and subsequent events have only reinforced it.

White Americans just seem to delight whenever they think the Arab/Islamic “terrorists” are attacked. They do not care about who the “terrorists” actually are or how many people suffer. It’s not worth interrogating what the “terrorists” are fighting for or who was harmed because to the white folks, the Muslim/Arab people don’t matter. They’ve been dehumanized to the point where their lives are considered worthless.

To give an example, there is a person in my life who I’m about to cut out (should have a long time ago) who texted me something to the effect of “that pager thing was crazy, but looks like they got a lot of terrorists”. I tried to keep my cool and explain how normal people like doctors and ambulance drivers were hurt and killed too, because lots of people use those pagers. Dude literally just used a shrug emoji in response, because I guess those people aren’t worth giving a care about.

Everything I’ve seen especially in recent weeks really shows how bad it is. Brown people in Western Asia don’t matter because they have a different religion and they are “prone to violence” and they aren’t as “developed” as us. I feel like this is really where the support for Israel comes from. Not from ideas of Israel fulfilling apocalyptic prophesy, but just because white Americans can turn on the TV and see people in Israel who look like them, who have a religion that is semi-compatible with theirs, and who live in a society that seems to be very “Western” fighting off the “savage Islamists”. It plays into their already primed-for-racism-and-chauvinism” brains.

While I don’t think American media is the source of racism and Islamophobia, I do think the last 20+ years of movies, shows, and games has really fueled the fire. I think (hope?) in the future people will look back on this period of “corn-fed white bearded operators killing all the Muslim terrorists” media in the way we look at minstrel shows now.

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[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 49 points 1 month ago

Like I don't even agree with where Russia is now and I only have family connections (haven't talked to most since before the SMO), but it's still family and I know they're not monsters, even the more "patriotic" ones.

AIt was tremendously alienating after '22 when suddenly I'm hearing the libs in my life talking about the combat footage they watched of "orcs" getting killed with like an excited fervor and I'm just the fly on the wall going 😬

It's categorically less bad than the racism and chauvinism directed towards Muslims, but if you're from a state enemy it's what you can expect I guess.

[-] Cruxifux@feddit.nl 31 points 1 month ago

Yeah. I’m really really tired of liberal hypocrisy.

[-] DeathsEmbrace@lemm.ee 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

A common tactic applied by almost all populations is dehumanization so it makes it easier to “pull the trigger”. It’s a tactic that’s been applied and used for eons. The use is prevalent in history. Its psychology is also proven as you are less likely to be empathetic to something that is not human and a proven enemy. Aliens are a perfect example in science fiction they are often portrayed as the bad/enemy but in reality we are nothing but a xenophobic and warring species. District 9/ET shows the complexity.

[-] GlueBear@hexbear.net 43 points 1 month ago

I wanted to add: hexbear is one of the most accepting spaces available online. I really like using this site, and I love the zero-tolerance policy the mods have for bigotry.

I mean that truly; I like using this site because of the community.

But during the period where people were "waiting" for Iran's retaliation, the doomers, and especially certain users really made me and a bunch of other Western Asian users feel a certain way.

The constant stream of users outright wanting a regional war to explode, even attacking Iran for not escalating, really gave us the impression that our lives were forfeit purely due to our race. Like it's so easy for us to get into a regional war! I mean we've been bombed to hell and back for over 30 years so we must be used to it right?

Certain users here completely disregarded what other Western Asian users said/ say that a regional war is a catastrophe. The Syrian war for example broke my heart, seeing people get treated like vermin because they need to find safety by white supremacists in Europe (95% of every white person in Europe btw) was horrifying. The stories of some of the refugees is burned into my brain.

A regional war would cause such a massive refugee problem for western Asia and quite frankly I don't want to see more of my people turned into refugees. I don't want to see the most vile and vicious savages the world has ever seen be the ones responsible for the safety of my people.

But to many users here, that never crossed their mind. That more people could die, that millions could be refugees never crossed their mind as to why Iran might not want to escalate to those user's hearts and desires.

If you pointed this out, like I did, some people would get mad at you. Honestly I stand by one of my other comments telling another user here, that if they're so invested in this war they can join an organization or go fight on the front themselves. In the end, chances are you live very far away from the violence and repercussions of this genocide. If you catch yourself attacking western Asian users because they're not as mindlessly blood thirsty as you, consider touching grass.

In the end, it's a viewpoint that needs to be repeated because we need to constantly remind people of our humanity.

It's easy for some users to think that because we are from a region that's been the recipient of the worst western foreign policy, we might be used to it. So what's a regional war to us? Another 30-40 year? We are used to it! No big deal.

This is a long post, and I'm sorry if it seems out of place. Since we are talking about dehumanizing Arabs, I thought it might pertain to the post.

[-] SadArtemis@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

No, you're valid as all hell. The devils want to destabilize the entire globe, and the truth is war and the fear of it sucks (especially as the west loves and is the real perpetrator of terrorism, whether that is with their beloved Zionists and daesh in the MENA, terrorists in the Sahel, those horrifying attacks on ethnic Russian civilians in Ukraine and then later in Russia itself, death squads in LatAm etc).

Honestly I get the apologies at the end (I've said similar when de-escalating from arguments that had racist shit- and then felt bad about even saying "sorry" at the end later upon reflection, like these fuckers won't give the same decency back). Don't be sorry. Fuck the west (I say as someone living in it). Fuck them (the broader society, heard people mald about "ohh noo so many of us are downtrodden POC etc" like no offense but it ain't on them and we all know it, and if they can't say "fuck the west" themselves maybe they should reflect on it), honestly one can't see their madness in the MENA, against Russia, in support of terrorists and fascists across the globe, and what they're seeking to do against China and ASEAN, and think that they get it, think that they can get it.

I'm glad that Iran is working ever closer with Russia, China, even India, etc. now. I'm glad that this time around- though things have escalated already to such horrific extents, because the west loves salami-slicing tactics and the imperialist mentality is wholly and utterly incapable of peace- that if shit truly comes to pass, the west shall have to live in even a fraction of the fear (it should be a hell of a lot more) that they orchestrate on a global level and particularly against the Muslim world.

I hope a broader war doesn't happen, but if it does this time around I hope the global majority sees to it that it's blood for blood, not engaging in nor condoning war crimes but the true experience of war and coming home (through state actions, not terrorism) may very well be the only thing that will kick some sense into the western devils. If they want to burn down Tehran, Beijing, Moscow, if they want to commit genocide on Palestinians or act like they own the Bab-el-Mandeb and terrorize the local Yemenis or talk about blockading the straits of Malacca, they should think twice. As said, I hope broader war doesn't happen but when and if it does I hope unlimited, infinite ICBMs rain down on the warmongering devils if they want their war so badly (which I suspect they do)

[-] CleverOleg@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

This is important for folks to hear, I’m very glad you shared it.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

If you pointed this out, like I did, some people would get mad at you. Honestly I stand by one of my other comments telling another user here, that if they're so invested in this war they can join an organization or go fight on the front themselves.

Hypocritical too since one of the rightly favoured tricks when dealing with bloodthirsty pro-Ukraine types is telling them to go join the war. Wasn't very cool seeing people treat it like a sport or something.

[-] GlueBear@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago

No it wasn't, I didn't even want to report anyone because I didn't even know how I was going to report a single user for doing what several others were doing in the news mega.

It was mind numbing, westerners in their arm chairs just over analyzing and thinking they knew more than Iran. Like some of the users here were actual analysts by trade (Scott Ritter types) then I would tolerate it. But no. It's probably just crackers seething that Iran is making them lose their cringe twitter debate against a nafo dunce.

[-] SacredExcrement@hexbear.net 36 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I think part of the issue burgerlanders have with conflict is that they've never really had to worry about it impacting them

The US hasn't been invaded in literal centuries, the only real attacks on it's soil in the last 100 years being a military attack on a naval base in Hawaii and a couple of targeted terror attacks

The inhabitants have never experienced what it's like to be indiscriminately bombed or occupied, nor have they really had to fear that since WWII

Of course, this is obviously only a small part of the issue, but still

[-] Thordros@hexbear.net 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

the only real attacks on it's soil in the last 100 years being a military attack on a naval base in Hawaii and a couple of targeted terror attacks

Incidentally, your first example wasn't on American soil—occupied Hawaii was not absorbed into the Union until 1959.

[-] SacredExcrement@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

Good point

That makes it worse lmao

[-] Thordros@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

[-] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

It took a loooong time of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan being clearly a pointless quagmire for the bloodthirsty islamaphobia of post 9/11 to die down to a simmer. The only way for Americans to ever care about a war is if Americans are dying and it's not going anywhere. This comes at a massive cost to those they invade. Once Americans spend 10 years getting killed over this and not reaching any conclusive victory, the American people will mildly criticize it.

[-] miz@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago

correct me if I'm wrong but I think you have to go back to the civil war, or if that doesn't qualify, the war of 1812

[-] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

AKSHUALLLLYYYYY the Japanese did technically invade Alaska during the Aleutian Islands campaign in ww2 but your point still stands

Edit: yes I know it was a territory like Hawaii at the time but unlike Hawaii, Alaska is physically a part of North America. This made it seem much closer than when the Japanese attacked other pacific territories like Guam.

[-] Des@hexbear.net 33 points 1 month ago

as a millennial person of burger i got to experience the immediate post-911 state encouraged racism first hand as a teen and later young adult

i came from a pretty lib family with a new deal/socdem political heritage that were never openly racist. my liberal internationalist grandfather wasn't a Zionist but held weird ideas like that Palestine should be turned into a U.N. administered territory and totally demilitarized (with the IDF turned into a local police force at most)

had a (not really close) friend who was a Pashtun, immigrated when he was 8 or 9, and just kind of a chill grunge rock listening stoner guy. he was mostly secular, but similar to my Catholic upbringing he would be a nominally devout Sunni only when going home to visit family. i remember asking him how tough it was to fly in and out of Pakistan (this was 2003) and he said it sucked

another (white) friend went to Iraq as part of his army reserve unit and came back to tell me of the actual war crimes he committed and we all broke all contact with him. he recounted personally murdering wounded "insurgents", encouraged by his squad, and should probably be in the Hague right now if that was legal

everything else came from media and was shaped by it. even my grandfather, as he got older and his only source was the news and newsweek magazine, started to believe the bullshit form the Bush era propeganda. meanwhile when i woke up the morning of 911 only thing i thought was "well that's it our government is going to create a police state". libertarian brained stuff

[-] LaughingLion@hexbear.net 19 points 1 month ago

It was so intense, the anti-Muslim sentiment. I'm also in my 40s and I also remember it too well, unfortunately.

I remember arguing with my family why we shouldn't go to war with Iraq. I told them how it would kill tens of thousands of people (I was off by an order of magnitude). Iraqis and Muslims were referred to by them in slurs. Every bit of propaganda you've ever heard was mentioned. There was no getting through to them. It's probably one of the most radicalizing things I've ever seen first hand just how set they were in this. Like a switch had clicked on this topic and all you could hear was what was said in the news and from your worst coworkers in hushed tones.

But that's the kicker, these things weren't even said in hushed tones. You could be openly Islamophobic in public. You could use slurs in public against Arab peoples and get grunts of approval in the fucking grocery line at your local Piggly Wiggly. There was no mask. The only filter existed in liberal media and even then that filter was not N95, let me tell you.

What's strange is I did now an older guy who was a family friend who had retired as a sniper and decided to do the PMC (Private Military Contractor) thing in Iraq when it kicked off. Mostly escorting convoys and shit. You'd think he'd be hoorah but for him it was just a money thing. And when he came back he had more sympathy for Muslims and Iraqis. He had some wild stories and some people he worked with were actually Iraqi themselves (one guy was a former Mr Iraq body builder guy who sadly died in an IED ambush). I think Iraq either woke some people up to the humanity of the other or cemented it in their minds.

In rural areas it never really died. I moved away from rural Tennessee in '04 and Islamophobia showed no sign of abating. Talking to my mom/grandmother over the last year who live in North Tennessee and South Kentucky reinforces that. They still have that same fucking mentality. It might have cooled for a few years but all you need is some white people dying at the hands of a guy in a turban and the hate boils back over again. Really gross.

[-] Des@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

You could be openly Islamophobic in public

this was so fucking bad during that period. like jim crow levels of racism. it's just openly practicing Muslims were so rare in the area i lived. i really only came into contact with them closer to the big cities. and that was my Pashtun friend, hanging out with Iranian foreign exchange students, and this Syrian guy who liked to throw huge parties

so maybe i lucked out somewhat

i also had a (childhood) friend that did the PMC thing after serving. in Iraq then Afghanistan. he was a tech but last i talked to him he also seemed to have liberalized his war on terror-era brainwashing as well, probably from working alongside locals. big contrast to my other friend who became a bloodthirsty psycho.

but yeah i almost feel like i was really insulated, especially from things you describe. my parents are libs and I intergotated them on their feelings about israel and they agreed it was doing a fascism but refuse to shake off the news medias conditioning and still see the Palestinians as equally bad and think the campus protests are racist.

[-] Aru@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 1 month ago

it's visible even with leftists

[-] SadArtemis@hexbear.net 19 points 1 month ago

Agreed. Honestly many western ""leftists"" and ""progressives"" suck ass, even quite a few POC ones.

[-] GlueBear@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

Don't remind me, sometimes I'd prefer if western leftists would forget we existed rather than try to help us and speak for us.

[-] Z_Poster365@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

people on this site have been banned for criticizing users who called Hamas and Hezbollah "fascists"

western leftists love calling every single arab or muslim group or leader "fascist" and then hiding behind that, pretending they are progressive. This chauvinism isn't a bannable offense, but getting "hostile" in response to these racist shitheads is.

For example, look up the user ProxyTheAwesome in the mod log. Banned for mocking western chauvinists who called Hezbollah fascist a couple days before October 7th. Now that user is more pro-axis of resistance after being bullied by people like PTA, but that doesn’t change that the mods chose to ban the principled person and protect the chauvinist. Many such cases

[-] Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago

Serious blinders on with those whites. Proxy was being pretty patient and explaining material conditions outside the US. But Americans just couldn't shut the fuck up and listen for a few seconds.

[-] Lussy@hexbear.net 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Sometimes, people who aren't even muslim or arab face worse islamophobia/Arabophobia than people who are.

this was my experience going to school in 911 america.

[-] nothx@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

Yeah, not sure your cultural background, but I know Sikhs were getting targeted by uninformed amerikkkans post 9/11.

[-] afters@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

i can relate. grew up muslim but not Arab and majority of Arabs in my masjid were white or white passing. me and my family unfortunately received a lot of phobic hate because we clearly did not pass as anything but brown and foreign and immigrated to the west literally in october 2001

[-] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

They’re like this with any ethnic group deemed the enemy. The Asian attacks in 2020 and the 80’s during the rise of Japan show that they’ll hate whoever they’re told to hate without much resistance.

[-] GlueBear@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago

Chinese people during Covid turned into anyone visibly Asian. They attacked anyone.

[-] CarbonConscious@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago

It comes and goes, really, along with other forms of hate.

Things get nakedly bad, which galvanizes people to organize and rise up and push back, the libs and cons get together to say "Whoah those people over there sure are hateful, let's put a new holiday on the calendar and pass a law that says "hey you're not allowed to officially discriminate against this group (wink)", the capitalists pop champaign and celebrate their inclusiveness, things seem slightly less bad for a few weeks, then the extremists get pissed off about the tolerance of those groups, the elites use their anger as an excuse to neuter the (already basically meaningless) protections, the chuds celebrate this as a win and use that as a rallying cry to organize and recruit, and saying anything about it means you are either ignorant or an extremist because "there's already laws protecting those people! There's no laws protecting my way of life! (all of the other laws)". Things get worse again, but now chuds are emboldened because they knew all along they were going to get their way like a child screaming for oreos at the grocery store.

Sometimes after a few hundred years things get marginally better! (on the surface)

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Not Amerikkkan thankfully but I am dreading the next time my dad starts screaming about this. He believes everyone on the receiving end of us-foreign-policy is like, brainwashed into following a death cult ( projection ) and must be eradicated by thr good guys or some shit. Even when talking about Palestine... I was sick of hearing that shit last time he brought this up.