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Dozens of interviews with people deeply familiar or involved with the election process point to a clear consensus: Not only could Trump make a second attempt at overturning an election he loses, he and his allies are already laying the groundwork.

Archived at https://ghostarchive.org/archive/8e3Ri

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[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 33 points 6 days ago

The plan is pretty simple.

  1. Win PA, hold the red states. Trump Wins.

  2. If a red state falls, get it's leadership to declare a Republican win anyway or refuse to send delegates to the Electoral College. This denies Harris EC votes.

  3. Number 2 may mean neither candidate gets 270 EC votes, in this case a joint session of Congress will decide the election. Unless a miracle happens this will be Trump because they vote by State delegation.

  4. If Harris wins PA and the Rust Belt, go to SCOTUS.

  5. If all else fails, go back to January 6th but with rhetoric meant to make the mob want to occupy the Capitol permanently.

They're already trying to get county clerks and election officials to do the job from the inside. Trump even honors them in person at his rallies. So buckle up for a year where election fraud goes big.

[-] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 8 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Number 5 may be part of the plan but it won't work this time. It only worked last time because Trump himself refused to increase security around the Capitol.

[-] irotsoma@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

Also because security mostly refused to use deadly force. Those security forces are mostly used to dealing with tourist issues, not criminals with guns. That may change if more hardened, militarized police forces are used.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

He doesn't typically attract the smart voters.

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 days ago
  1. If all else fails, go back to January 6th

I doubt the capitol police and national guard will be unprepared for that this time.

[-] TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 5 days ago

Occupy the capitol permanently? As if the military industrial complex doesn't have special forces squads who specifically train to exterminate this kind of threat. The nanosecond it becomes serious again, shots will be fired into the insurrectionists until they either give up or stop breathing

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

You think Trump cares about the people in the mob?

[-] randon31415@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago

In the event of a electoral system collapse, the BIOS of government is "who would the military support?"

Harris wins enough states to get to 270 and then (Some electoral votes get sent wrong/don't get sent and congress/SCOTUS rules Trump the winner), Harris asked the military "who do you support?" and it might be Trump is put in jail by the military before he can be sworn in. Sets a bad "president", but if you throw out the rules to win, expect the other side to do the same.

[-] Skydancer@pawb.social 9 points 5 days ago

Except that the Dems are consistently unwilling to play hardball. The generals would have to make the decision to intervene without being asked for that scenario to play out. I don't know much about sentiment in the upper (or even lower) ranks of the US military, but that seems unlikely.

Even then, there's a significant chance Harris refuses to be put in power by military intervention, or the generals believe she would remove them and instruct her attorney general to prosecute them. So military intervention, if successful, would at best mean new (military supervised) elections.

[-] Sybilvane@lemmy.ca -1 points 5 days ago

Sorry to be pedantic but the word is "precedent"

[-] naught101@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

99.9% sure that's in quotes because it's an intentional pun

[-] Yareckt@lemmynsfw.com 17 points 6 days ago

Don't you guys have secret services who have decades of experiencre in overthrowing governments and absuing Institutions abroad? I would think that while the democrats are in charge they would be able to ask those guys what needs to be done to stop this power grab.

[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

It should go without saying that top military leaders and top spy agency leaders have considered what they might do under various circumstances.

Obviously it would depend on the details and we have no idea, but if Trump tries to brazenly push a coup, and it looks like it might be successful, you can imagine someone at the CIA considering whether they should fix the situation.

It's a strange situation because we can only blindly speculate, but when people are trying to tell us that the sky is falling, it's important to keep in mind that when you get to a coup d'etat, regular reasoning goes out the window. At some point, again depending on the details, it just doesn't matter what the Supreme Court says.

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

They're trying to stay out of this because they don't want it to look like they did it or were involved.

[-] VintageTech@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 days ago

Those individuals want to stick it to the libs also because they took their fun away

[-] SGGeorwell@lemmy.world 201 points 1 week ago

WE KNOOOOWWWW. It’s the worst-kept secret in politics. People in other countries are aware. The birds are aware. It’s part and parcel of the experience of fascism. Never underestimate what pure evil is capable of doing.

[-] Ok_imagination@lemmy.world 40 points 1 week ago

Realistically is there anything we can do?

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 56 points 1 week ago

Be ready, especially if you're on the east coast.

The rednecks are assuming they're the only ones with balls and nobody else will stand up to them, like all bullies think.

Prove them wrong.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 week ago

As a Redneck dont associate us with the white trash. Some of us still remember Blair Mountain and arent fond of the comparison.

[-] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 48 points 1 week ago

at a personal level, contact the governor and ask them how you can be certain as a voter that trump won't steal the election like he tried in 2020.

let them know you're paying attention.

[-] MajinBlayze@lemmy.world 47 points 1 week ago

My fucking Governor is in on it

[-] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 week ago

I bet a few of them are.

despite the fuckery, many policy decisions are changed by people calling in and emailing in and telling the elected officials that people are watching them and disagree with what they are doing.

public opinion does make a difference, so on a personal level that's what we can do.

[-] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 34 points 1 week ago

Save up so you can buy a bus/train/plane ticket to DC if they try shit. If they do what they're signaling and the legislature fails us it'll be down to mass civil disobedience to keep the country from fascism.

I wish I had a better answer, but they've eroded so many of our institutions.

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[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 62 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Overturning a Kamala Harris victory would require an enormous amount of help from Republican power brokers in statehouses and Congress, some of whom spurned him four years ago.

That won't be a problem for them. Republicans spurn only until it's to their personal advantage to un-spurn.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

If it wasn't for double standards they wouldn't have any

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 57 points 1 week ago

He will try to ensure Harris is denied 270 votes in the Electoral College, sending the election to the House, where Republicans are likely to have the numbers to choose Trump as the next president

This seems like the most likely outcome. System needs reform.

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[-] futatorius@lemm.ee 49 points 1 week ago

He doesn't control the federal government this time, so his chances are worse this time.

[-] lionheat@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago
[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 1 points 5 days ago

Not exactly. Nobody controls them. They can do whatever they want, and they often do things that he likes.

So think about the situation. The Supreme Court can try to rule in Trump's favor, and depending on the details, that would essentially be a coup d'etat. If they try that and fail, they will probably have permanently ended their careers, and I think they would be risking their freedom. And they know it.

It makes sense, right? You can't easily run them through the court system because they outrank everyone, which makes extra judicial action more likely.

So they could rule in favor of Trump, again depending on whatever hypothetical we're considering, but I think they would only risk doing that in very narrow circumstances. They didn't get where they are by sticking their neck out for others. They got it by taking bribes and being opportunistic sleaze bags, by putting themselves first.

[-] NewNewAccount@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago

His cronies are at all levels of government, including many red state election officials.

[-] kalistia@sh.itjust.works 32 points 1 week ago

I'm sorry, dear US-American friends because you have a great democracy but also at the same time one of the most flawed electoral systems of any democratic state in the world...

[-] kalistia@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 days ago

By great, I meant that it is indeed the second largest democracy in the world and that, imperfect as it may be, it is functional... But that last statement will soon be put to the test I'm afraid.

[-] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 week ago

I’m so demoralized. What parts stand out as a “great democracy” to you still?

[-] Siegfried@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Old solid institutions... most democracies are just a few decades old.

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[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 24 points 1 week ago

This kind of article is kinda baitclick because it ignores the elephant in the room... If Trump is running a coup d'etat, what will people in power do? Will they sit there, like they did in 2000? If he's audacious enough, they won't. For example, if SCOTUS tries to decide the election (like they did in 2000), I think we would see complete collapse on many levels in many ways.

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[-] Head@lemmings.world 20 points 1 week ago

We already let Dubya get away with it.

[-] Moah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 5 days ago
[-] Head@lemmings.world 1 points 3 days ago

That's the moment when they learned what they could get away with; what the Democrats will just take.

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this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
318 points (94.9% liked)

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