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don't be a coward (mander.xyz)
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[-] MrJameGumb@lemmy.world 83 points 2 weeks ago
[-] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 56 points 2 weeks ago
[-] TheMinions@lemmy.world 53 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You guys should read the Stormlight archives. Fuckin everything is a crab, even the plants.

[-] SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

Renaldo thinks that one crab is sexy at least

[-] rockerface@lemm.ee 5 points 2 weeks ago
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[-] fossilesque@mander.xyz 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I couldn't finish the first book. :(( Ironically, I liked how he finished Wheel of Time. I DK. It's not terribly written; it just didn't stick. Robert Jordan was a far worse writer lol.

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[-] Infynis@midwest.social 6 points 2 weeks ago

Cytoverse too

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[-] SurfinBird@lemmy.ca 30 points 2 weeks ago

If this post is awakening some weird feelings in you, there’s an episode of Futurama you might want to watch.

[-] Technus@lemmy.zip 38 points 2 weeks ago

Oh yeah, that crab could definitely get it

[-] Zerush@lemmy.ml 22 points 2 weeks ago

Life can have infinite forms and can exist and evolve in the most inhospit environments. But an advanced tecnologig species only can exist in certain environments and with reduced posibility in their appearence. Aquatic beeings can be intelligent, but never can create advanced tecnologies. The basic condicion of advanced tecnology is the domination of fire and electricity, not possible in the water, it need Oxign in the atmosphere.

They must have limbs skilled enough to handle and construct this technology, a complex communication system, and a binocular vision system (for this reason the most used in all species) to perceive their environment. The humanoid shape is one that best fits these maxims and therefore it is quite possible that an advanced species would also have a more or less similar shape.

It is known as convergent evolution, when unrelated species have a very similar physique to each other by living with the same challenges in similar environments. Evolution always use similar solutions for similar tasks. A good example is the genet, which looks and behaves very similar to cats, even with retractil claws), but they are a completely different species (Viverridae)

[-] P00ptart@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago

Land octopi would be pretty cool though.

[-] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

Tech needs electricity and fire is not universal. That is what we use.

Our brain is lot more complicated and efficient than the computers we make and it uses ions, in liquid media. So something that lives in water could definitely be able to make something that would be able to use similar things to do processing. Water is also really good with doing things, it's flexible but doesn't compress/expand like air does. Think about hydraulic systems. You can make them smaller and smaller as your tech progresses. Mechanical things using metals and such would work in water as well. Think about gold and such that can be used for electricity as well, we don't use it because it's valuable, but an alien world could have abundance of gold for them to use.

[-] Zerush@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago

Fire as base is needed. To make hydraulic or other tech, you need metal, and to work with metal, you need fire to melt and form it. An aquatic species can evolve to an advanced intelligence, but it can't evolved to an advanced tecnology. Dolphinse have a great intelligence, not far from the humans, but they never can be a tecnologic advanced species, they don't have even hands to manipulate tools. They use tools in a basic way, they even use old fishernets they found on the ground to hunt fishes (observed in the Mediterraneo). But manufactoring it is other thing.

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[-] shalafi@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Don't care how smart you are, you ain't shit without metallurgy followed by electricity. No metallurgy, no electricity, no tech.

Ever read a science fiction novel where the aliens evolved underwater? The author has to twist the story in knots to try and explain how they gained anything advanced without fire.

[-] gens@programming.dev 4 points 2 weeks ago

It can be cristals and photons. Carbon is the basis of life because it's good for looooong molecules. But it's not like it's the only option. It may not even be the best option on planets with different temperatures or pressures.

Anyway life may not even need food or care about the passage of time.

[-] anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 2 weeks ago

It can be crystals and photons.

How do you build actuators that react to light without electricity?

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[-] Sludgehammer@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

They must have limbs skilled enough to handle and construct this technology, a complex communication system, and a binocular vision system (for this reason the most used in all species) to perceive their environment. The humanoid shape is one that best fits these maxims and therefore it is quite possible that an advanced species would also have a more or less similar shape.

Elephants meet all of these criteria as well. A complex limb (their trunk), a complex communication, and binocular vision (although I don't see why this is necessary).

[-] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You can’t compare an elephant trunk to the human hand

[-] holycrap@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago

Not with that attitude

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Elephant trunks are bigger than human hands.

See it's not that hard

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[-] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago

Genets are bad example, because Viverridae are the closest relatives to Felidae. Convergent evolution would be better illustrated by fish and dolphins.

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[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I can't help but notice that you didn't list a whole lot of traits that would be considered vital to having a fairly human sillhouette. There's nothing here about obligate bipedalism, for example, or having just two legs in the lower part of the body at all. There's nothing here about how the forelimbs are articulated, and whether it would look meaningfully like hands or an array of dexterous tendrils or something. And all this gritty realist speculative biology seems out of place when most sci-fi is basically a particular sub-genre of fantasy anyway. Even being generous to the sci-fi writers, supposing the universe works in a fundamentally different way from how ours does (breaking laws of relativity and entropy, commonly), why can't some ecosystems work out to stretch your imagination of what could be an advanced species? It all seems very narrowly prescriptivist, even beyond the fact that this is fiction to the point of taking negative liberties with the bounds of what is truly realistic.

Edit: idk, it just seems obtuse. Like, "Advanced life can only be carbon-based because being that way affords these benefits" without considering that other models could provide other benefits (I'm sure you know better than I about the use of silicon-based life in speculative biology). And that's if the subject is addressed at all.

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[-] kerrigan778@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago

A fairly small number of known species evolved to the vaguely humanoid form, but 100% of known species with a human level of higher intelligence have had roughly this body plan, it's really not unreasonable to extrapolate that this could be a common body plan for intelligent aliens.

[-] leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 22 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

known species with a human level of higher intelligence

  • Humans (allegedly; evidence points to most being dumb as a rock).
  • Some species of extinct hominids (sure, but they're extinct).
  • Dolphins (and orcas, which are big fancy dolphins); absolute creeps, though.
  • Whales, possibly, though they tend to keep to themselves, so who knows.
  • Some species of octopods.
  • Some species of parrots.
  • Some species of corvids.
  • I swear some of those black and white sheepdogs seem more intelligent than many of the people I know.
[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 weeks ago

Dolphins and whales might be intelligent, but their bodies do not allow them effective use of complex tools. Same for birds.

Octopods do have a body that is flexible enough, but having evolved in water is a huge limiting factor. But some are able to move around outside water, so it's not too far fetched to imagine becoming a global species.

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[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago

Taken more seriously, having the evolutionary background to have:

  • fine control over your limbs, like fingers
  • 3D-thinking (throwing) and manipulation
  • cooperation

another human-like civilization is pretty unlikely.

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[-] superb@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 2 weeks ago

Project Hail Mary got this really right. The aliens are big rock crabs

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You know who's not a coward? Captain James T Kirk.

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[-] lowleveldata@programming.dev 15 points 2 weeks ago

But what if the human form is a prerequisite for evolving into the space age? We wouldn't need so many tools if we were strong as a crab to begin with

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

I've never seen a crab measure thousandths of an inch, or back a Phillip's head screw out of a hole with their crab strength. Tools are still required.

[-] letsgo@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago

I've seen a wasp unscrew a screw I thought was in pretty tight.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

What am asshole!

[-] lowleveldata@programming.dev 7 points 2 weeks ago

The premise is that they won't invent advanced things such as screws because the survival pressure is less intense

[-] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

Someone needs to rule 34 crabs. And then delete their Internet history as thoroughly as possible.

[-] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 weeks ago

(V) OwO (V) What's this? snip snip

[-] UmeU@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago
[-] half_fiction@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

Taste like crab, talk like people.

[-] Iheartcheese@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Crab people. Crab people.

[-] RandomStickman@fedia.io 11 points 2 weeks ago

The squid bois from Arrival are cool

[-] Matombo@feddit.org 10 points 2 weeks ago

Funny to think about it: Crabs are a huge local maximum of peak evolution

[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago
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[-] Sporkbomber@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago

Neal Asher's Praedor Moon is a fun read if you want to see what advanced humans would do against space faring crabs.

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[-] realitista@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago

I doubt crabs could make it as an intelligent interplanetary species. I mean claws are cool and all, but really tough to use tools with.

[-] fishbone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago

Sure, but have you ever tried to disarm a crab and lived to tell the tale?

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[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago

What is this "crabbification" evolution trend you speak of?

Intelligence favours dexterity of making/holding weapons and tools. Claws are not as good. Armour is always a nice to have, but the offense from weapons use from "hands" is better. I do like the idea of 360 rotating "eye arms" to catch backstabbers. Maybe more arms and legs.

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this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2024
861 points (99.0% liked)

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