My SO knows my passwords and I hers. I don't have anything to hide so I never have to panic if she wants my devices (for ordering food etc).
I can see why this is a contentious topic for either paranoids or people who aren't being truthful to their partners.
You can want or need privacy without it being nefarious in some way
Absolutely! I'm 100% for privacy and security where necessary. My point was just that if you have a partner you can trust, it removes the necessity for secrecy which in turn will do wonders for your ease of mind.
You've obviously never had an insecure or abusive or manipulative partner.
I have, but luckily am not together with them anymore. You deserve better than someone who second guesses your every move.
Controlling parents in your life?
Not "controlling" but they are emotionally abusive. Especially when I was younger, but even now they are still a bit emotionally abusive. They constantly accuse me of "faking" my depression, while simultaneously want to do involuntary hospitalization. Their emotional abuse is probably why I even have depression in the first place. (I suspect my mother to be bipolar, one minute shes fine and acts nice, 5 minutes later she gets mad for small issues, even for problems like her shitty coworkers or other issues not related to me.)
Moving out is not really an option, the economy is shit (not to mention, the incoming tarriffs with the next administration), and with depression, such a sudden change in life would definitely make me unable to hold a job. I would end up dead by suicide if I attempted moving out. I tried living at college apartments when my parents funded my college, but I had anxiety all the time, and couldn't deal with it. Actually moving out permanently would feel much worse. Ironically, I have separation anxiety even tho my parents are emotionally abusive 😓
Not to mention, living alone also has another challenge, in case of home invasion, I wouldn't be able to defend myself (cops are useless btw, they take at least half an hour to respond, not an option), if I got a gun, I risk getting depressed one night and ending myself, so a gun isn't an option either.
Basically a lot of issues with moving out, not good for depression.
Hey there! I can relate a lot to what you're saying here. I've often felt trapped in a bad place because all of the alternatives seem worse. I had a fairly traumatic upbringing (some emotional abuse, a little bit of physical and sexual abuse, lots of emotional neglect), and I also suffered from a fear that the people around me would mess with me and invade my privacy.
For me, the need for privacy came from a place of deep self-loathing fueled by a shitton of criticism from my dad (why can't you do anything right/think the right things/just focus on something). I didn't want others to see who I really was, so I went to extreme lengths to hide it from the world. Everything was locked, and I used to write my thoughts down in an intentionally opaque way to try to mask what I really felt.
I dunno if that matches your lived experience at all, but one of the consequences of all this was that I did this thing called catastrophizing. I'd become totally crippled and stuck and lost because I'd only see the worst possible outcome in every decision I might make. It's very common for people who have suffered emotional abuse (especially for those who have their judgement, sanity, or morality criticized by their parents). I could absolutely be off base here, but like, I started feeling those feelings of doom and danger as I was reading your comment. I am absolutely not trying to minimize your situation. Catastrophizing is a horrible thing to battle with, and it takes actual traumatic catastrophies before you begin to catastrophize.
w.r.t. home invasions and safety, it might be good to reevaluate that. Is it really so dangerous that you would need to defend yourself? Like, maybe that's the case! I grew up in a pretty safe place, so I lack the proper context to understand that fear. I do know that violent crime is very uncommon. Your situation may seem hopeless and you may feel trapped. I've felt that way. Just know that while some choices have risks and may feel dangerous, things don't always go that way. You deserve to feel safe and secure.
No. They're to technologically inept.
Its not that hard to stalk someone if you're on a Verizon Family Plan, see my other comment.
It is, when relative to barely being able to use a phone.
It already happened to me.
My old phone was on a Verizon family plan, with my family.
Problem: My dad is a QAnon nut who builds ghost guns in his garage.
Mom is a pushover, brain broken from a childhood of drug abuse.
Brother dropped out of high school to do drugs at raves, very emotionally unstable, 3 different times in my life I've had to drop everything to save him from becoming homeless and/or dying of an overdose, all occuring either when i was getting two bachelors degress simultaneously at the best uni in the state, or right after I graduated.
I up and left one day after getting sick of their bullshit. Just completely ghosted them after I couldn't stand their bullshit anymore.
For the next two weeks, my brother keeps somehow showing up every 2 days, despite me being in locations I've never, ever been to before.
He is always in his car, slow crawling, looking at his phone, looking around, then panicking when he realizes I am staring at him, driving off.
Hrm. Turn off GPS? Nope, brother keeps showing up.
Call up Verizon explain what is going on, they say oh you're not an authorized plan admin.
Huh. I was 2 weeks ago.
Root the phone, properly de google it.
My phone plan is then immediately cancelled, within a minute of booting up the phone again.
Call up Verizon (on a shitty grocery store sim card). Oh yeah your phone number was disabled by the admin, you have to contact them to enable it, no you cannot transfer the number to your own new plan, that's all we can tell you.
... My family de listed me as an admin from the phone plan, enabled parental controls to literally stalk me, then disabled and froze my number/line after i uninstalled their ability to do that.
... This also had the fun side effect of locking me out of every single account that that I was using that number for with 2FA, so, no more banking for me!
If you think I'm nuts: This is just an optional feature in a Verizon family plan.
Works to approximate location even if the target phone doesn't have the app installed on it.
https://www.verizon.com/support/verizon-family-faqs/
What Verizon Family features are available without downloading the Verizon Family Companion app on my dependent's device?
Certain features are only available if the Companion app is installed on your dependent's smartphone and paired with the Verizon Family app on your device.*
Without pairing, you can: View Verizon cellular call and text activity† Set time restrictions on texts, calls and data usage** Set data limits** Set text and call limits† Get access to the device's network location Note: Network location accuracy may vary up to a few miles.
Obviously if you are stationary, and connected to a WiFi network with a known location, like a motel, or a library, or a coffee shop, you can narrow the pure cell tower triangulation error range, by a lot.
So uh yeah, if you have a Verizon family plan, you can easily be under realtime surveillance by whoever is the actual plan master.
This reminds me of OCD, tbh. OCD works like this: The Obsession: it’s a persistent thought that you can’t stop thinking about. That you ruminate over and that causes you anxiety. Such as, “someone poisoned my food” or “I left the stove on at home” or “my actions will cause a butterfly effect that will lead to somebody’s death” or “someone could have bled on that sink handle and they had HIV”. Some thought like that, that is sometimes completely illogical. But you cannot argue with how illogical it is, because you feel anxious regardless. Your fear exists separately from what you know is logical.
The there is the Compulsion: you try to alleviate this anxiety/fear by doing an action. Whether it’s praying, or counting, or whatever. If you fear poison, you might only eat in tiny bites. If you fear you left your stove on, you might check it 10 times in a row. If you fear the butterfly effect, you might wait to walk out of your door until it “feels right”. Doesn’t matter what it is. It’s often not logical either. But it makes the anxiety go away.
The the D in OCD is Disorder, because it negatively impacts your life and wastes your time in a significant way. Like, everyone might worry that they left the stove on once in a while, but not everyone is consistently going back to check it 10 times. Or 30 times. Etc.
The reason this sounds like it could possibly be OCD to me is because you have the Obsession that you are being spied on. And you presumably do Compulsions like covering your phone or checking for malware like, all the time. In order to alleviate the anxiety of the Obsession.
So. Not schizophrenia imo. You clearly know it’s not logical of you to be so paranoid. But perhaps OCD. Idk! Only you and a doctor can figure that out.
If I were you I’d ask myself if there are any other things you do that follow this pattern. And that negatively affect your life/mood. People with OCD usually have multiple obsessions and compulsions in response to those obsessions. And these can be observed to change over time too. Think about your childhood. Think about your present.
No.
This isn't OCD at all.
They're not describing a need to perform specific tasks in a specific way or number of times which they feel anxiety if they do not do.
They do not describe any rituals that they feel they need to do to alleviate anxiety.
They don't describe anything like needing to check if a door is locked 10 times or checking if an oven is off 10 times, you're just making that up from nowhere.
...
They're describing a generalized, heightened sense of anxiety about the security of their digital devices from people they are in close proximity to, as well as just a general fear of being spies on by cameras.
As well as germophobia and mysophobia.
None of these fears are entirely factually unfounded or without merit, germs can harm you, digital devices can be covertly spied on.
They then go on to detail how their family is emotionally manipulative and abusive.
...
... IM(unprofessional)O, this is CPTSD.
That will manifest as heightened general paranoia as well as any number of specific paranoias... because it makes sense to be extra worried about trusting things when you are constantly surrounded by duplicitous assholes who lie about things constantly, and cause you to fear things like footsteps and knocks on doors.
If your baseline is: I am normally lied to, spied on, have my words twisted against me by people I am forced to be around constantly, you'd likely become generally untrusting and paranoid too.
Germo/Mysophobia could come from being stuck in an unclean environment where people rarely or never excersize sufficient hygeine and cleaning, don't throw out moldy food, etc, which has gotten this person sick multiple times, so the compensation is to have a heightened awareness and aversion to potential sources of sickness.
I am not saying it is OCD, I am saying it could be OCD. Especially if they left details out of their post, which they may well have. The things I made up are examples of real symptoms someone might have. I am not saying they have any of the symptoms. The only reason I made this post with a detailed explanation of how OCD works, is because the majority of people think OCD is about washing your hands and being clean, because the contamination obsession is one of the most common obsessions. Therefore, if this person did have OCD, my post is a good introduction to realize it. If they do not, they will not relate to anything I wrote, and in that case they can ignore my post.
You may well be right about the CPTSD as well. They should look into it too.
I don’t feel comfortable diagnosing them based on one post they made lol. That’s not what I was attempting to do. I am also uncomfortable with you definitely saying “this isn’t OCD at all”… we cannot tell what this person is truly experiencing from one post alone. So giving potentially useful knowledge to them, such as a more accurate rundown of how OCD works, is only logical imo. It’s better to have information than to not have it.
My sibling was initially walking around with undiagnosed OCD for years because of the hand washing stereotype. And the neat freak stereotype. “I can’t have OCD! My room is a mess!” type of deal. I don’t want this to happen to anyone else. That’s all.
My parents regularly did go through my things when I was living with them, and I did get in trouble for the most random things they found. Not a great feeling, but at least they don't have a spare key for my current apartment.
absolutely, can't do anything embarrassing In case someone is watching, can't freely use the web -they (parents) could check our router and see everything. Also I can't be in any room of the house that isn't mine, as they could be there, or be watching. I think they read my diaries, although I've hidden them. I stopped writing or, couldn't write the truth in it anymore because I was afraid. Its never crossed my mind, they could've just installed something while I was sleeping, but that's mostly because I just have my pohone with me at mostly all times.
maybe its just because most of this has happened, and my personal stuff never was safe and never will be. I can say, this has scarred me for life now, and these feelings won't fade, as they have already migrated/taken over my whole day. Constant paranoia everywhere and irrational. I can't do anything correctly anymore. I might actually die because of this but whatever
No. But sometimes I wonder if anyone around me can read my thoughts and I become super self-conscious of what I'm thinking.
Locking your phone, setting it to auto lock, using biometrics so the pin is hard to steal, etc are all perfectly reasonable things to do. You have a right to privacy
If you have abusive and technically skilled family who have been caught spying on you with technical means, worrying they might do it again would be reasonable
If you constantly worry about something that you have no tangible reason to consider a credible threat, it might be some other issue, from anxiety to OCD. Perhaps try to talk to a professional?
On biometrics btw: they're worse against police who could force you to unlock the phone, but if your worry is someone seeing your pin, biometrics fixes that
You can restart the phone or activate lockdown mode before going to bed and be safe from someone sneaking your finger print
I used to, but I grew up in a house where privacy was a thing that existed in stories, only for other people. Me and my brothers had our rooms regularly searched, and our phone calls eavesdropped on. My parents weren’t secret about it, except when they tried to be, but we knew all the signs and so knew when to keep our mouths shut, and we also got really good at hiding things.
It’s taken decades for me to adjust to the idea that my spouse doesn’t (and won’t) go through my stuff (and yes, this is something I’ve tested him on without his knowledge).
I had a fear that a live-in girlfriend had installed spy software on my phone.
I never did find out whether she had. But I did uncover a bunch of lies on her part, and generally speaking discovered that it was not wise to trust her with my heart and sanity.
It’s likely that my worry about her possibly having hacked my phone was a result of my subconscious noticing things my conscious mind didn’t until later.
On the other hand, at the time I had a tendency toward paranoia.
Looking back, the paranoia could have been a sort of “mental inflammatory response” to actual sketchy shit going on, even if the specific notions my paranoia presented weren’t, themselves, true.
At a deeper level, my breaking up with her was part of an ongoing process of integrating my own mind in a way that led to a lot less second guessing. For example before this transformation I never trusted my gut. I’d get a gut read, but then I’d have to justify it with demonstrable evidence before I acted on it.
A psychologist, who actually helped me find the courage to break up with her and supported me in that process, told me during one session “You need to develop an alliance with your subconscious mind”.
In response to his saying that, I remember sitting on a bus as it went along a loop route, just in a sort of eyes-half-closed almost trance, as I basically tried to strike an alliance with my subconscious mind.
The deal, that was formed in an actual sort of conversation with my subconscious, was this:
During that bus ride, I suddenly felt a sense of wholeness and fullness. My paranoia decreased enormously. I felt like it was time to get moving, so I stepped off at the next stop.
Then suddenly realized I was near her work. And also suddenly realized I had the courage to break up with her. She wasn’t at work, but rather at a nearby gym. I went to the gym and broke up with her.
Since then, it has been much easier to make decisions. My life feels richer. I don’t have any qualms about rejecting a person or situation just because it doesn’t feel right; no more articulable justification is needed.
I can now say “nah, no thanks” to things without needing an argument about why beyond “I just don’t like it”, or “I don’t feel like it”.
My advice, if you want advice, would be to consider this concept of making an alliance with your subconscious. Make sure you two are on the same team. Be willing to act on its information, and ask it to help you meet your goals.
Maybe I’m fucking nuts to see things that way, but I really felt like I was communing with another being during that bus ride. That was six years ago. Now it doesn’t feel like a separate being. I’m a lot more in touch with my feelings. It feels like an integrated whole, because we have a lot of practice acting as a team now.
But at the time, I was cut off and separated from that part of myself. The first step toward integration was establishing a quid pro quo based on mutual respect. And a commitment not just to demand help from it, but also to provide help to it. I (the conscious part) promised to it that I would uphold my side of the bargain, and I’ve stuck to it.
I hope this helps. I know it sounds really weird.
Being wary is a thing but constantly worrying is an issue. Either you can trust your family enough to not do that or you should wonder about living on your own. But you gotta make sure you are not falling into paranoia. It is a concerning disease and you should be careful not to fall into it.
*wary, unless constant fear makes one tired too.
Thanks did not realize about that typo
But you gotta make sure you are not falling into paranoia. It is a concerning disease and you should be careful not to fall into it.
If this is where they're at, they are already elbow deep into that sticky soup of paranoia.
Not at all.
I have taught my family to use PIN codes / passwords.
No, but I would invite the idea. If someone would be THAT interested, I would gladly show them all the fckd up shit I look up and create. If they did it w/o my consent, lol for them.
Rule 12 applies in all aspects of life; not just on the Internet.
If I ever paid for a will, I have this idea that I would want all the contents of my devices, and my search history published, and a QR code put on my gravestone. But I would imagine it wouldn't be any more unique than most others.
No, but I would invite the idea. If someone would be THAT interested, I would gladly show them all the fckd up shit I look up and create. If they did it w/o my consent, lol for them.
I think this is an important part of it. There's a level of discretion that is about polite social boundaries. If someone walks into my room when I'm naked I'd cover myself up, but it's as much because I assume they don't want to see me naked as it is to 'protect my modesty'. I hide NSFW content on my devices because I don't want a friend or family member to accidentally come across something. If they really want to know about stuff like that and poke about, then sure, go for it weirdo. I think the act of prying is more embarrassing than the 'private' stuff it uncovers.
I have to quick blur NSFW on here when I go in public, so as to not have awkward glaring duels with strangers such as the ones that might be behind me on the bus. But in a casual setting where I have a social opportunity I just leave the Lemmy nudes on my feed unobscured. Someone goes, wtf you lookin'' at and I am like: I don't dictate nor direct the feeds, they direct me lol.
When I was a teen in summer camp, the girls once spied on us in the shower. We knew but they didn't know we knew, so we put on a show. We teased them about it more than they did that year. Lol. It's usually the other way around in movies.
I can only dream that people would care about me enough to do such things. Most people barely acknowledge my existence.
I see you, fam! Sometimes I think that's why I like interacting here on Lemmy and getting upvotes; they're someone at least acknowledging my existence.
I know people that do snoop. I had a friend that once asked me if I go through people's medicine cabinets when I go to their bathroom or through all of their things when I house sit. I gave a solid no because not only do I respect people's privacy, I don't even want to know what's in there. That's too much knowledge for my limited brain space. She responded that she does every time she has a chance. People be going thru your shit, and it's the gross ones.
This won't help you on the tech stuff but one technique I use at work is to set "traps". Very simple things like placing a tiny piece of paper in a place where it will fall if a door is opened. A piece of tape or thread works too. I'll take a picture for reference
I don't, and they couldn't get in if they tried
Occasionally (when looking at something I'd rather they didn't know about), the thought that my partner might have installed something that monitors all network traffic and what websites are accessed crosses my mind... But I don't seriously worry about that, because I trust the people I live with, and they wouldn't do things like that.
Maybe your family are less respectful, or think messing with people is funny? But it also might be an expression of social anxiety. It's a pretty typical symptom of anxiety to worry that other people are thinking about us, talking about us, noticing tiny things (when most of the time people don't actually care that much). So worrying about spyware could be a modern version of that?
I wonder if there are some simple tech soloutions you could implement? Even if you simply get a cloud based log of every time your phone is unlocked, you'd be able to spot unauthorised access while you're sleeping. But the real answer is probably working on your sense of security and trust. Do you really have reasons not to trust these people? And if they did find out what you did on your phone, would it really matter? As some of the other commentators have said, if you're secure in yourself, then your online activity becoming public shouldn't worry you.
I used to have that fear when I was a kid living with family and my mom in particular was very nosey. I understand a nosey parent to make sure you kid isn't into drugs, but she went way beyond that. She was also paranoid so she was convinced I was doing fucked up shit without any evidence.
It took me a long time to get over that. I did have a friend who was rooting through a couple of my things and we stopped being friends not long after. As far as I know, no one else has gone through my stuff.
The only time I've ever gone through anybody else's stuff is to look through my mom's drawers for things she stole and my ex's phone after many years and other evidence that he was fucking around behind my back and I wanted to know for sure that he was. I hated doing it in both cases because I didn't like it being done to me but felt that was the last option I had.
So yeah, with psycho family, you have every right to feel that way. Just know that isn't normal and that most people won't do that.
I'm not, but this is one of the reasons I never wanted to move for college, and also part of why I don't want ever to live at a rented place. I don't believe "they are out to get me", I don't believe I would be targeted, but I do believe that it can happen in the wrong environment, and you never know. I'm also aware that I wouldn't necessarily notice it, or if I did I wouldn't know what was compomised.
I don't normally think about this at home where my family lives, but sometimes I remember that they don't always lock the door, or that sometimes we have guests.
if I had a housemate I would expect it to be a similar case, except if that was not really a choice. I would still put a simple password on my computer, but I wouldn't go out of my way to set up disk encryption just for that
Like every time I wake up, I wonder if my parents or brother put some malware/spyware on my phone because they think its a funny prank or whatever.
there's something unhealthy in that. either that you think about such things, or that there is a reason you do so in your environment
Every time I enter my PIN for my phone, I always cover the screen before entering it in case my parents have cameras in the house. And even more so in public, I'd fear CCTV getting my PIN.
It's good to be cautious to having cctv see your passwords in public. but at home, again it depends but shouldn't be a concern.
Can't say that I do.
Oh I am certain he found my dildos, but he's probably staying away from my browser history.
Honestly, I sometimes fear that I live in a more extreme Truman Show, where everyone can read my thoughts and plays along. So yeah, kinda?
Nah. I use a password lock instead of biometrics even if my family actually cares enough to want to.
My spouse and I know each others passwords, and I don't have anything to hide from them either so no I'm not concerned about that.
I am on my parents family plan, so they could potentially see some of my stuff, but I'm sure they don't know how and wouldn't be able to keep up with it even if they did
Yeah, family only saw me as that stupid fucking puzzle piece and not an actual human being so they'd look through everything and assume that stupid puzzle piece was the reason why and share it with ABA therapists, or literal professional child abusers, to make me no longer do the thing. Actual humans can watch youtube poop and meme videos because they're funny, but I only did because that stupid puzzle piece made me. Actual humans can read and write fanfiction, make games, romhack, and have hobbies, but when I did them, the same stupid ass puzzle piece that made me too stupid and unfit for actual human society made me so talented and so smart, and what used to be a hobby becomes some big stupid "talent" that I'm forced to overwork myself on to prove that puzzle pieces are just as bright as people! So inspirational! Ugh. But when I quit all my hobbies, the same puzzle piece that made me do them made me quit.
No, I know my girlfriend doesn’t look at my stuff but I couldn’t care less if she did. The worst things i have on my devices are pirated games and movies and she can enjoy those all she wants
I think this comes from inside, if you are the type of person that snoops into other people’s stuff you would probably also be afraid others do the same. I couldn’t care less what my girl does on her phone (she would let me if I wanted to though) so I don’t look.
Unless your spouse or family members happen to be NSA agents or feds of some kind this is baseless paranoia. If you want to be concerned over genuine privacy concerns to feed your fears look into PRISM or nine-eyes, not your own family installing RATS on your system for ... reasons.
Its not impossible there are obviously examples of snooping usually cause of spouses and fear of cheating. In your case though, are the logistics and reasoning there to support the concern?.
The thing about extremely anxious and paranoid people is this: they get so caught up in their what-if nightmare cassarole fantasies that they forget the basic but important questions like "but why? for what reason? Realistically how could they do it without notice, and whats the time investment or monetary cost to keep it up? What are the actual chances if I were to spitball a statistical probability of this event actually playing out, 1/10,000? What useful information could they actually get from this? Am I or my information REALLY that special? Do I think anyone in my personal life really wants to know about my shameful sexual kinks or dirty secrets? Can a person who barely knows how to open a web browser ot read emails really competent enough to comprise my system?" These kinds of reality-check thoughts don't occur to extremely paranoid people while on a fear-spiraling episode.
You felt the need to cover your ass saying you weren't schitzo, so you probably already know these kind of thoughts are indicative of potential serious misfirings in your neural network. Something might not be right in your ape brain. If your fears and paranoia become even worse to the point you think your own family has been replaced by clones or is trying to poison you, please seek help.
Finally, if you truly do have concerns about snooping that come from a place of legitimacy, theres always things you can do to shore up your security. cryptography encryption and physical pass keys for your digital information, black tape over your cameras when not in use, soundproofing foam over microphones if you can't rip them out or physically kill them. Keep your phone in a diy Faraday cage box made layered with aluminum foil. Hell get some bug detectors and sweep the whole place. You aren't helpless. Use your brain and take control of your environment one step at a time.
Thinking otherwise is naïvety. Nothing is truly private and you should never do or say anything you wouldn't want to be known to have done and said.
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