i feel like whats missing in this discussion is the effect of quantum mechanics on consciousness. there is some research that shows that randomness introduced by quantum particles can affect synapses, and theoretically consciousness. and I think that even on infinite scales you can't really get the same exact quantum patterns, they will never repeat, or else it wouldn't really be random.
Random things repeat all the time, though.
for single random events that is true, but you cant consistently get patterns of random events. you cant infinitely flip a coin and get a tail every time.
There's only a finite number of events that would be necessary to make OP's premise happen (well, except for the consciousness transfer part, I don't think there's any rigorous basis for that). If you flip a coin an infinite number of times, you will get any finite sequence of heads and tails an infinite number of times.
i like to think so
I've actually thought of this exact scenario before and for selfish reasons I hope it's true, there are many parts of my life I loved and parts that were horribly heartbreaking but I'd do it all again if I could. But that's just me now, will have to see how I feel later!
possibly disturbing existentialism
when that distant mind forms, eons from now, will you experience it? or will it be a clone with your memories?
what if two identical minds form at the same time, both of which have your memories and thoughts? Which set of eyes will you look out of?
continuity of consciousness is a strange thing
in fact, the "two identical minds" example proves nothing, you could be both of them. A consciousness can be split: for example, if you separate the lobes of a person's brain, put each lobe in a new body, then regrow the missing lobes, you get two people who each can claim they are the original. That person's life seamlessly branched into two lives without interruption.
and what about interruption? does it matter? if you delete a person's atoms for a nanosecond, then restore them, do you have the original or a clone? I doubt we'll ever know. If consciousness can survive a total interruption, if the same life resumes afterward, then I start to wonder if we are all packets of a single consciousness. On the other hand, if consciousness can't survive an interruption, then I start to wonder if we are constantly dying from one instant to the next, a series of clones like frames of a film.
Nothing will cause a new "you" with your current memories and personality to be recreated, but new blank slate subjects are being created all the time, which we all started as.
https://www.naturalism.org/philosophy/death/death-nothingness-and-subjectivity
Why does the universe have to exist for an infinite amount of time? Or is that part of the thought experiment sorry I'm tired
What else would it do?
Clock out at the end of its 15 billion year shift at the factory. "i swear if i get another human infection Im out of the black hole production game for good!"
The thing that's helped me understand this argument is that there are different forms and sizes of infinity. let's say you add 1 infinitesimal (1/infinity) every given time interval. Even if time is infinitely long, you will never surpass 1. So you will never produce 100 or 1000, or any arbitrary number greater than 1.
Similarly there are so much variables required to form your conciousness that even in an infinite amount of time it can never be reformed spontaneously. The size of infinities involved in producing a given person's conciousness is orders of magnitude greater than the infinity of time.
Similarly there are so much variables required to form your conciousness that even in an infinite amount of time it can never be reformed spontaneously. The size of infinities involved in producing a given person's conciousness is orders of magnitude greater than the infinity of time.
Why? It's a finite system. There's a finite number of particles. Why would it take a "larger infinity" than a countably infinite amount of time for, after the heat death of the universe, enough space dust to come together again and spontaneously cause another big bang? If the universe keeps going infinitely, what's to stop it from happening again, and again, and again, until the big bang and all subsequent events are exactly the same as the universe we know? Or at least arbitrarily close if you want to think of it as a continuous system.
To counter your argument about adding up 1/infinity an infinite number of times: it's not 1/infinity. The chance that a bunch of hydrogen particles fuse together to form the necessary elements, then happen to react to form the necessary chemicals, to form a human brain in the vacuum of space, is clearly very unlikely. It might be 1 / 10^10^1\0^10^10^10... or whatever. The denominator in that fraction is a number that is freakishly large and impossible to conceptualize. But it's definitely finite. There's a world of difference between that number and infinity, and there's no reason at all for it to be infinite.
Edit: also, small nitpick, infinity * 1/infinity actually can surpass 1. Or it can equal 0. It's an indeterminate form. If you get it as the result of taking shortcuts while solving a limit e.g. lim x -> inf x^2 / 4x^2 which you could substitute the x by infinity and get infinity / infinity, it just means you have to do more work. In this case, you can factor out the 1/4 and get x^2 / x^2, which simplifies to 1, and the limit is equal to 1/4. So even if the probability was actually 1/infinity, it wouldn't be sufficient to say that over an infinite period of time it would never add up to anything. Maybe your point would be better illustrated with a geometric series? Like when you add 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8.... you'll tend towards 2 but never above it.
Yeah, the idea that space dust could randomly form a brain for a moment is pretty odd. We are products of infinite causal factors including millions of years of stable life, and I’d have to guess are consciousnesses reformation would occur under vaguely similar circumstances. “This happened once so within infinity it will happen again” is a little absurd if you think it will happen again in totally different circumstances.
I was interpreting the statement as 'the production of the same Earth up until this point where I died but instead do not.'
That’s an odd idea. Eternal recurrence multiverse version. If that were the case there would have to be so many factors identical to this world and then suddenly the universe decides to do something different preventing someone’s death temporarily? Ignoring the question of whether that would just be a clone, I find it hard to believe identical conditions would produce different results.
If this were meaningfully true, I think we’d remember that having happened already. If the universe has just as much infinite time before now as after now, I’d already have lived, died, and been born again. If this has happened, and I don’t remember it, what is the use of saying that that person and I are the same?
I agree it’s absurd if there’s an assumption memories are maintained. But it’s more plausible if you just forget everything and have a whole new life in the samsaric fashion.
What case do you have that the universe will exist for an infinite amount of time?
Personally, my mindset on the matter is asking yourself if you remember what it is like before you were born. That's what it will be like after you die. There is no material evidence to perceiving anything after death or a rebirth at all. Oblivion.
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
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