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SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California Gov. Gavin Newsom has vetoed a bill to require human drivers on board self-driving trucks, a measure that union leaders and truck drivers said would save hundreds of thousands of jobs in the state.

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[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 115 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry, but do people actually think human drivers in autonomous vehicles will make them safe?

Imagine sitting and watching a robot do its job for hours - do you think you'd be attentive to safety problems after all that time?

[-] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago

Have you never seen the traffic jams caused by these things getting confused and not being able to figure a way out?.... the drivers there so people don't get stuck behind them for an hour while someone from fuckyoutech comes out to fix it.

[-] Dirk_Darkly@sh.itjust.works 43 points 1 year ago

No, but I have sat in a traffic jam caused by a human driver who caused a multiple car pile up because they wanted to be slightly ahead.

[-] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's almost like more than one thing can be bad. Autonomous cars are just a shitty bandaid solution that doesn't fix the problem.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 year ago

Exactly. We should instead get autonomous trains, and fix our cities to be train friendly.

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[-] Neato@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

Autonomous cars are the only viable solution in the near to mid term. Human drivers are awful. Building out mass-transit and transport infrastructure is a generations-long process and very politically unpopular. Autonomous vehicles will have issues that can only be ironed out in live testing. Which sucks but that's how all innovations go.

[-] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Autonomous cars are decades away from hitting any level of meaningful saturation. Might as well work on the more practical solutions....

[-] Neato@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

What's more practical? Redesigning all of US's cities to work without cars? High-speed cross-country rail? Mass transit in every town?

That's more practical than passing regulations that allow the few companies even attempting automation to test it? This is just a "if it's not perfect don't do it" mentality that stops any attempts at progress.

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[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago

That's fair, but I was more concerned about an accident being caused where the "driver" has seconds to react to a mistake the car is making. After sitting doing nothing for hours there's no way they'd be attentive until it's too late.

[-] Eezyville@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

They would be more likely to stop the accident from happening if they were there as opposed to not being there.

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[-] ipha@lemm.ee 34 points 1 year ago

And the human driver would certainly be used as a scape goat should anything bad happen.

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[-] Takumidesh@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

This is a real thing, they are called operators and it is their job to oversee the cell, start and stop jobs, resolve bottlenecks, identify upstream problems and gracefully handle them, and emergency stop the system when needed.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago

Yeah, part of my job making car parts is as an operator for a cell. Im constantly moving, troubleshooting, doing minor maintenance, and actively engaged in the process.

A driver-operator would be sitting down doing mostly nothing. Totally different

[-] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago

I imagine they could do just as well having an operator sit in a cubicle all day flipping between video feeds of a dozen different vehicles. Then when manual control needs to be taken over they could operate it with a joystick or something and play truck simulator.

[-] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

"Connection error: could not connect to truck, please reload and try again"

Oops, just crashed

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[-] MooseBoys@lemmy.world 69 points 1 year ago

union leaders and truck drivers said would save hundreds of thousands of jobs

There might be good reasons to have human drivers in autonomous trucks, at least for a while. But “saving jobs” is not one of them.

[-] spitfire@infosec.pub 15 points 1 year ago

It certainly is one of them. You can’t virtually close an entire sector of jobs all at once without serious repercussions to the economy.

[-] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Yeah, if it comes with a tapering requirement over several years I think it's an excellent idea that saves jobs and also helps ensure safety.

[-] szczuroarturo@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago

It wont be all at once. Those changes usualy go very slow. Especialy in the buisness sector.

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[-] Poppa_Mo@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago

Can't believe they bothered to try to pass it. From an outside quick glance, it seems like a brilliant idea. But then you have to remember WHY they're doing this. They want to ship 24x7 and not have to pay a person. Slapping a co-pilot in there is counter-intuitive to their end game. Not to mention humans do NOT have the required attention span for this. We can often do stupid shit, completely sober, while driving, with DECADES of experience.

If the autopilot is even 80% effective, we're going to get bored, sleep, read, fuck around on our devices. Maybe jerk off? Who knows?

We're not ready for this step, not yet.

Bet they'll be needing a lot of mechanics when the time comes, though.

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[-] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 year ago

Safety be damned! We have corporate profits to consider here.

[-] xkforce@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Yes because theres nothing safer than a truck driver thats been awake for 24 hours because their schedule is so tight they dont really have time for sleep. /s

The actual issue is that autonomous driving will make millions of peoples' jobs obsolete not that it couldn't be as safe as a person driving if not more so.

[-] theluddite@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

There are two issues. First, self-driving cars just aren't very good (yet?). Second, it will make millions of people's jobs obsolete, and that should be a good thing, but it's a bad thing, because we've structured our society such that it's a bad thing if you lose your job. It'd be cool as hell if it were a good thing for the people who don't have to work anymore, and we should structure our society that way instead.

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[-] artaxadepressedhorse@lemmyngs.social 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We've entered the Twilight zone. Where Ben Shapiro and Gavin Newsom are on the same side of a debate, and they're fighting against Tucker Carlson and the unions.

Edit: piped link

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[-] Trev625@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago

"Lorena Gonzalez Fletcher, head of the California Labor Federation, said driverless trucks are dangerous..." Well are they dangerous? Is there any data to back up that claim? And is there data to back up the claim that keeping the driver in the vehicle makes it safe again?

I hate this "save the jobs" attitude. How about we not save the jobs and pay them to get other jobs or even pay them to stay home?

[-] sour@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

driverless trucks are dangerous

because trucks with drivers aren't

._.

[-] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago

Having a required human driver in the trucks for if/when the self-driving portion of the truck suddenly bugs out or gets into a situation where it cannot get itself free would probably save them a lot of headache and business when suddenly that truck gets into a situation it cannot correct itself.

Hell, we've already seen times when that would've saved lives like the time self driving taxis ended up blocking an ambulance en route.

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[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This can only end well. I can't wait for the personal injury lawsuits to start rolling in.

Also, having worked in a warehouse, who the hell is going to hand over the paperwork? Do you know how many places don't use electronics that talk to each other? Do you know how many times I, working at a modest size business, had to sign my damn name? Half the time it doesn't even need to be there, they just use it to make sure somebody looked at the pallet of merchandise to make sure it was correct. This is going to blow up in everyone's face, literally and metaphorically.

[-] technicalogical@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

I think the plan for a lot of trucks is for them to do the long haul part without a driver. But the "last mile" is done by drivers that drop the load, do the paperwork and back to the depot to snag another trailer.

[-] shasta@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

Yeah, basically it's a way to avoid using trains

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 19 points 1 year ago

Companies will put the staff back in the trucks when it becomes apparent how easy it is to stop them and steal everything from the back.

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this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
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