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Multiverse (sh.itjust.works)
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[-] kryptonidas@lemmings.world 152 points 1 month ago

Infinite options does not mean all options. Eg in the set natural numbers 0-infinity the set of infinite numbers between 0-1 (or between any other 2 adjacent numbers) is absent.

So you can definitely have an infinite multiverse where in all of them infinite multiverses exist.

[-] moody@lemmings.world 54 points 1 month ago

There are infinite numbers between 0 and 1, but none of them is 2.

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[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Infinite options does not mean all options.

Right, as you said the natural numbers is an infinite set but it doesn't contain fractional numbers between adjacent natural numbers. The set of natural numbers also doesn't contain letters, or colors, or varieties of geese. You can even add other constraints to the set and still have an infinite set that contains even fewer possible values, like you could have the set of all natural numbers that don't contain the digit 3.

People make the mistake of thinking that an infinite set of universes means that there is every conceivable version of a universe out there, but that's not the case. Murphy's law says that anything that can happen will happen, but that means things are still constrained by what can happen. Reality is constrained by consistent logic, the most basic of which is the identity law, p = p. It is a contradiction for both p and ~p to be true, a violation of reality. So if the multiverse is a reality, it is a single reality that is self consistent, meaning there is no Universe in the multiverse for which there doesn't exist a multiverse.

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[-] De_Narm@lemmy.world 82 points 1 month ago

Given an unlimited amount of tries, I can win any major lottery 10 times in a row.

Given an unlimited amount of tries, I still cannot go super saiyan. Believe me, I'm close to that amount of tries!

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 34 points 1 month ago

Have you tried screaming and flexing really hard?

[-] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 41 points 1 month ago

Ya, I pooped a little and lost consciousness.

[-] MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 month ago

Only a little? There's your problem!

[-] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Ahhh, I get it. So you are saying that I need to eat taco Bell beforehand. Because that is the one sure way I can be sure that I will thoroughly shit myself when I am unconscious.

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[-] Tolookah@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 month ago

Given an unlimited number of fries, I can go super fat.

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[-] BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 51 points 1 month ago

Infinite doesn't mean everything. Infinite can include a repeating pattern, even a huge repeating pattern which seems random at first. Not everything you could possibly imagine would necessarily have to exist in the multiverse.

And even if infinite and perfectly random, some things may just not be feasible and just not exist.

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[-] DaddleDew@lemmy.world 38 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Given an unlimited amount of tries, anything that has a non-zero chance of happening, no matter how unlikely will happen. But what has absolute zero chance of happening will still not happen.

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 34 points 1 month ago

If there are multiple countries on the planet Earth, that must mean there's a country where the other countries don't exist.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 28 points 1 month ago

I think that's North Korea

[-] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 19 points 1 month ago

You spelled United States of America wrong.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 9 points 1 month ago

Most Americans acknowledge the existence of other countries, that just refuse to believe those other countries have access to electricity, plumbing, or the internet.

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[-] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 30 points 1 month ago

Aargh! Okay, I'm going to fix this and the fine tuned universe argument all at once.

Nature does not care about your silly numbers and hypotheses. All of our scientific mechanics are models of the observed universe. The ones we call theories are just models good enough to be usefully predictive as to forecast outcomes, allowing us to safely land airplanes, build bridges, make safe pharmaceuticals (or super addictive ones, if we want), split atoms safely to produce power (or unsafely to level cities) and so on.

We care about the math and the numbers because they give us results that are consistent with nature. But nature is doing what it's doing because it's behaving as a giant causal engine (ever-smaller forces that drive observable phenomena, at least until we get to Planck scale). So when it comes to the fine tuned hypothesis, to quote a Texas physicist whose name I can't remember These numbers ain't for fiddlin'

If there are any storm gods at all, anywhere in the world, to the last, they are content to allow lightning to behave strictly according to static-electricity electrodynamics. And ball lightning happens whether or not we have a model that explains it. (Presently, we don't.)

If one or more of the many-worlds hypotheses are true, no given universe cares what its science-savvy inhabitants have determined and whether their mathematical models allow for models that are factual. Facts don't care about your feelings. Facts don't care about your science either. It's more that the science does is best to describe what's going on in the facts.

Irreducible complexity is solved.

PS: This also stabilizes the cosmic horror scenario of Azathoth's dream, that Azathoth gibbers in the center of the universe dreaming its whole, and each and every one of us is a mere figment, who will vanish to oblivion when eventually he awakes: From what we can observe Azathoth has been dreaming consistently for thirteen billion years, and doesn't seem to be in a hurry to wake up, and his dream is profoundly consistent so that the mathematics we use to send probes from planet to planet, eventually into the outer solar system always works. Azathoth has our back!

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[-] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 28 points 1 month ago

Oof that reminds me...

When my partner and I had already been living together for a while, we had one of those "cuddle on the couch and deeptalk" days, when she confided that, while she was not religious in any traditional sense of the word, she felt immensely comforted by the thought of an infinite multiverse existing.
"If there's an infinite amount of parallel worlds, then I choose to believe that even if I die here, life goes on in another world, so in a sense my being and existence do not simply vanish completely. Same for you! And hey, even if we both die, we'll get to continue living together in some version of the infinite multiverse!"

It was clearly a thought that comforted her a lot, and at the same time a rather intimate belief that she chose to share with me. So, like the idiot I am, I stared her in the face blankly and went "There's an infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 1, and none of them are 2".

I really regret that. She let me know later that that one sentence shattered the belief for her. Which is sad, because it's such an innocent thought. There's no religious behaviors or conditions or rituals attached to it, it's just comforting.

[-] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago

It's comments like this that make me glad I know how to read the room

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[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago

Your comment doesn't really make sense though, a two doesn't appear in the numbers between zero and one because it's not the type of thing that appears in that set. Alternative version of you absolutely are things that appear in a multiverse.

[-] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Sorry, I should have gone more into the actual belief. For her it was less of an "if I make a decision that leads to my death in this universe, there surely is a parallel universe where I did not!", it was "if I die in this universe, thanks to an infinite multiverse, there must be one where I spontaneously start exisitng with all my exact memories from the previous life".

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 month ago

Ah ok.

Sounds like she's essentially describing the Quantum Immortality concept. It's definitely highly speculative but it's not beyond the pale.

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[-] rmuk@feddit.uk 26 points 1 month ago

"If there is an infinite number of buckets, there must be a bucket where the other buckets don't exist."

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[-] MeatPilot@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago

I know one thing that's absolutely true about the multiverse!

The multiverse is a convenient excuse to reboot superheroes for a new audience to make money.

[-] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 25 points 1 month ago

this is stupid. The existence of an infinite number of universes does not at all imply they must represent infinite variability.

[-] Ultraviolet@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The set of all possible universes does not include impossible universes. If you assume all possible universes exist, you've already eliminated universes that are the only universe as impossible.

[-] Chronographs@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 month ago

I’d argue that multiverse theory being true would be a property of the multiverse, not a property of any individual universe, but the ‘infinity not including all possibilities’ part is true too

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[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 month ago

This is illogical. That is all.

[-] lunarul@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago
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[-] itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 1 month ago

Don't you love it when people say random, illogical bullshit that sounds vaguely sciency and pretends to be deep?

[-] null@slrpnk.net 15 points 1 month ago

Of course not, I hate jokes

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[-] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If there is an infinite Multiverse, there is a universe where the inhabitants believe the Multiverse doesn't exist, doesn't make it true.

If there is no infinite Multiverse, the inhabitants could also believe that it exist.

No paradoxes.

Edit: A computer can run Virtual Machines, but there could be some VMs where another VM can be run, while other VMs have some "system corruption" that make the VMs impossible, but VMs still exist. Just because one VM cannot run VMs within itself, doesn't nullify the existence VMs

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[-] answersplease77@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

I have not seen not even on paper a universe which allows casual paradoxes like that comment says

[-] BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee 21 points 1 month ago

because you arent in the universe that has that paper

[-] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 7 points 1 month ago

It's being suppressed by Big Paper. Or by Big Universe.

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 11 points 1 month ago

The multiverse either exists or it doesn't. Individual universes have no influence over that.

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[-] silverchase@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago

So can there be multiverses that contain every other multiverse other than itself?

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[-] ekZepp@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago
[-] SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee 8 points 1 month ago

I never realized I til this moment that is a TF2 model.

[-] Knelt6526@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 1 month ago
[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago

It's funny, outside of Hollywood, Comic Books, and Bertrand Russel trying to disprove religion by taking Hawking out of context, is there any real evidence for a multiverse?

I mean I believe that reality is truly infinite and the only reason we have limitations is because we haven't found a way around them yet (Science distinguishable from magic is not sufficiently advanced in my book), so I'm not calling bullshit, but I'm also asking for evidence beyond going "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if?"

[-] fsxylo@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago

It was always a hypothesis that filled in a math equation but has no proof.

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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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