1

Example: Traffic Speed. Everyone always exceed the speed limit on highways. Why do we still have the limit? Like, either enforce it, or remove it. This stuff doesn't make sense at all.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 weeks ago

Aside from selective enforcement, some laws (like traffic laws) are there for your protection AND to establish liability if something goes wrong.

If the government sets the limit at 30 and everyone goes 50, when an incident occurs, nobody can sue the city for bad roads because everyone was going faster than the intended speed.

[-] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago

When minor things are against the rules which are selectively enforced, it means the authorities get to pick and choose who to punish based on whatever criteria they feel like, which gives them power.

[-] nieminen@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Which shines some light on how the black population (at least here in the US) gets charged with disproportionately more crimes.

It's very effective in keeping slavery via our private prison system running

[-] PanoptiDon@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

So you can selectively punish.

[-] oyo@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago

True, but traffic not following "the algorithm" is more dangerous than moderate speeding.

[-] hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago

Everyone always exceed the speed limit on highways.

Is this some kind of American thing?

[-] Grappling7155@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 weeks ago

Canada too. Sometimes it seems like the speed “limit” is actually the minimum most people are expected to go (if possible) on Ontario’s highways, especially the busiest ones. Enforcement is almost entirely done manually and barely exists, if it’s being done at all.

A lot of roads and highways are very over-engineered here with wide & forgiving lanes, with broad shoulders at the side. The actual speeds that can be accommodated in the design are far greater than the posted limit.

[-] hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 weeks ago
[-] IronKrill@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

To expand on what Grappling said, I'll give you an example. A few years ago the city repaved a decrepit section of road into a smooth and wide open road that is wide enough for 4 lanes but made into 2 wide ones with massive shoulders. There are no pedestrians on this road and you can comfortably go 80-100km/h. The speed limit they set? 50. While it's not every road, it is definitely a lot of roads that get treated like this. It results in getting very comfortable with breaking the speed limits because the speed limits are ~~stupid~~ not matched to the designs of the roads.

[-] Grappling7155@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

North American driving culture sucks. For the past 70 years cars have dominated at the expense of all other modes of travel. They’re deeply embedded into our culture, infrastructure, planning processes, transportation engineering, and daily lives. They have become synonymous with freedom of movement for a lot of people who can’t imagine any different way to get around. Speed limits and enforcement in their minds are seen as an infringement on their rights. It will be a long and uncertain process to enact change, ripe for disruption and setbacks, but the status quo isn’t working, we’ve hit the limits of cars’ ability to scale, and with the internet showing how things are in the rest of the world, some people are waking up to what’s possible when you aren’t dependent on cars to get around safely and reliably.

[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

In Canada, the speed limits are kind of designed for bad conditions. Because somehow, in the cities, many people are too stupid or stubborn to go below the speed limit in the snow.

So in clear conditions, the speed limit should be higher than it is.

Also, at least around where I live, the roads are designed to support higher speeds than the speed limits indicate. So we have roads designed for 50km/h, but the speed limit is 30km/h. 50km/h feels nore comfortable to drive.

Why don't we just redesign the roads to make them less comfortable to speed in? Well, how else are we going to issue tickets where officers can choose who gets fined, and sometimes even get to search a car out of the deal??

[-] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 weeks ago

no idea where you're from, but it's true in many European countries too

[-] Padit@feddit.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

What is a speed limit on highways?

Confused greetings from Germany.

[-] otacon239@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Anecdotally, I’ve almost never get pulled over in traffic, but the one time I was pulled over, I was doing 76 in a 65 at 5 AM with no other cars on the road and otherwise driving completely fine.

I guess he was bored. Or an asshole. Or both.

Edit: Fixed my paradox

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Both times I've ever been pulled over for speeding the road was empty except me and i was going the average speed people drive on them. 3 people doing 20 over, a cop can shrug and say i don't wanna pick one to ticket. A single car not only sticks out as speeding more easily, but there also isn't much of an excuse for the cop not to pull them over.

Counter intuitively, its easier to get away with speeding when the roads are busy because you blend in. The biggest things you want to avoid when speeding and busy is agressive behaviors and frequent passing. Make it seem more casual and you will blend in with the flow of traffic.

[-] RBWells@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

On the highways here, the original speed limit of 55 was to save our nation's resources, not just "55 to stay alive" but also it was an efficient speed to maintain and still pretty fast.

Inside the city it works much better to make drivers feel unsafe going fast. Narrower lanes, speed bumps, roundabouts, etc.

In answer to your actual question - some laws are just old and haven't been unwound yet and others are used as pretext for profiling, police (or, more properly whoever is running them) like to be able to stop people for no reason but that can be seen as illegitimate, so they keep laws that everyone breaks, jaywalking, etc to have an excuse.

I don't think there is any one law everybody breaks really but also no person who has lived perfectly law abiding life.

[-] Fleppensteijn@feddit.nl 1 points 3 weeks ago

Traffic speed? If you know where all the speed cameras are, you could dodge them and hope there are no other police checking you.

[-] heavydust@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 weeks ago

That's the whole fucking point. Speed traps are only there to decrease the number of people killed, and we still have idiots complaining about it.

[-] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Speed traps don't stop or prevent crime/accidents, they generate money. In fact, one could argue a police speed traps causes accidents when a group of cars in the front suddenly slam on their brakes.

[-] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 weeks ago

People exceed the speed limit on highways, but usually not by a lot. If they exceed it by a lot, it is usually enforced, e.g. by speed cameras; but of course some people still sometimes get away with it, no enforcement of any law is perfect.

[-] Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 1 points 3 weeks ago

You seem to be assuming that people would keep driving as they currently do if we removed speed limits entirely. I'd be willing to bet that this is not the case. Most drivers have a number in mind on how much they're willing to exceed the speed limit. For me that is 5 - 10kph, so if the limit is 60kph, then you're not going to catch me going 80. Without speed limits I probably would.

So why do we have such laws? Because they work. Not perfectly but to some extent.

[-] lath@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Bureaucracy is a nightmare. There's national laws, local laws, technical laws, practical laws, petty laws, incompetent laws, minority laws, old laws nobody bothered to get rid of, potential laws for possible situations that might happen at some point in an imaginary future.. and so on.

Basically, it depends on who writes the law and why. All laws are subjective to humans, by humans and against anything that annoys the specific humans in charge at any given point in time.

[-] Kanzar@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

This sounds like a distinctly cultural problem where the word 'limit' clearly doesn't mean very much to the population in question.

It's a limit, not a target, and certainly not a floor as some USAsians seem to treat it.

Here in Australia you can be fined for exceeding the limit by less than 10km/h. Yes, even if you are 1km/h over, and whilst this would probably get thrown out in court you'd still have to take time off to attend court.

[-] faythofdragons@slrpnk.net 1 points 3 weeks ago

In the US it's technically a target, since you can be ticketed for going too fast or too slow.

[-] TheFogan@programming.dev 1 points 3 weeks ago

In general speed limits are enforced IMO, just within a certain level. IE yes everyone exceeds the speed limit... but typically by set amounts. IE I know myself I generally go 9 over the speed limit. I expect to get a ticket if I go 11-20 over the speed limit.

That being said, yeah the social construct is probably intentionally encouraged by cops, so that say when they are pulling over random minorities for an excuse to search the car, they have an automatic excuse for why they pulled them over.

[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

You're not expected to break them. For your example, you're not supposed to go over the speed limit. And it is, in fact, extremely easy to do so. Most people are fine with it. And, no, it's not impossible to do so. There is nothing forcing you to go faster for little to no gain and increased risk for you and other.

You expecting to go over tells something about you.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Practically no one actually drives at or below the speed limit in the US, especially on freeways. Whether or not you personally like this doesn't matter -- it's just how it is.

You're welcome to try it, but speeding is so pervasive in our culture that this will single you out and Ruggedly Individualistic Americans will get frothingly butthurt at you over it. Prepare to get tailgated, cut off, bullied out of your lane, stuff thrown at your car, etc.

[-] howrar@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago

It's not just a matter of others getting butthurt. It's actively dangerous to be driving at a different speed from the rest of traffic, regardless of whether you're going faster or slower.

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 0 points 3 weeks ago

If that's true, then it would be a good idea to have everybody converge on a particular speed. It doesn't seem practical to negotiate that speed amongst a constantly-changing set of drivers, it probably needs to be chosen in advance. That seems like a natural function of government, to choose the consensus speed through a process designed to represent everybody in the community.

To communicate to drivers entering the roadway this consensus speed which everybody must travel at—for safety—the government could, say, post it on signs located along the roadside.

But that's probably just a ridiculous fantasy. How then should all drivers negotiate the consensus speed to ensure safety?

[-] howrar@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago

No negotiation is needed. As long as everyone agrees to follow everyone else (i.e. no one tries to overtake and you keep a constant gap with the car in front of you), then everything will naturally fall into place.

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

Given those conditions, everybody drives the speed of the slowest driver.

[-] howrar@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

Yes? I get the impression that you mean to disagree with me, but I can't tell how.

I don't know if my explanation of the phenomenon is correct or not. I don't know much about the science of traffic dynamics. All I know is that when you're on the road, pretty much everyone ends up at approximately the same speed. That speed can differ relative to the speed limit depending on time of day, road and weather conditions, which road you're on, etc. and there's no one to tell me what speed to aim for. I just look at the flow of traffic and follow it. That's all.

[-] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

You expecting to go over tells something about you.

I don't drive, but every time I’m in my parent’s car, they drive the speed limit, then I see cars flying by on the highway, and I’m like wtf.

I double check the spedometer, it points at just below 60, the sign says speed limit is 60. How is everyone going so fast. They must be speeding.

Not just one or 2 cars. Like almost every car.

Edit: This is in the USA, the Interstate-95 / PA-NJ Turnpike btw.

[-] hangonasecond@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Textbook case of a cognitive bias. If you're going the speed limit, every car that passes you is speeding. You don't see all the other cars doing the speed limit.

[-] MolecularCactus1324@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

They exist just in case they need to crack down on you.

I always think of dog leash laws this way. In many places they aren’t enforced and the majority of dog owners let their dogs off leash. However, if the owner loses control of their dog and it gets into trouble, like biting someone or another dog, then the law can always say, you’re liable because your dog was supposed to be on leash.

I think the same goes for speeding and other laws. It basically puts liability on the lawbreaker if they take a certain risk. If nothing bad happens, fine. But, if something does, then it’s your fault.

[-] MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub 1 points 3 weeks ago

This has the unintended consequence of people not knowing about the law if it goes unenforced for a long time.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 0 points 3 weeks ago

How do you expect constant enforcement? I'll go over the speed limit on the motorway when it's quiet and the lane is empty. Police generally don't care if you're doing 75 or 80 in a 70, as long as you're not driving like an ass. The most important thing is keeping pace with traffic.

How do you expect constant enforcement?

China did it.

They put cameras all over the highways, just mail them the fines and use the video recording as evidence.

I mean, you don't even need China's authoritarianism to acheive this, traffic cameras already exist in many democratic countries, just add more along the highway.

[-] cumberboi@slrpnk.net 0 points 3 weeks ago

Not sure how cost effective this would be :/

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Certainly cheaper than paying for a police cruiser and all their equipment and wages. Its also less likely for the camera to be racist, be bribed, or shoot someone.

Cars are so common and speeding ignored for long we'd probably need at least double the amount of cops to enfroce traffic if we got rid of red light and speeding cameras.

In China, they made up the costs from the fines they received... so its actually quite profitable, because people just can't resist the urge to speed.

I think the bigger problem isn't the costs, it's that there might be backlash and protests in a democracy.

[-] cumberboi@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 weeks ago

mm yea true

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Because it can be enforced selectively, and if everyone is guilty of something, anyone in particular can be harassed under the cover of a legal justification.

[-] beerclue@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Well, tell that to my local traffic authorities. My wife basically has a subscription with them, we get home a monthly invoice for 30€ because she was driving 55-60 km/h in a 50 zone... Complete with a picture of her face and the car's license plate :)

[-] mortimer@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I got caught once by a speed camera doing 65 in a 50 zone. The camera was in an unmarked van parked on the motorway lay-by (conveniently just after some temporary road works). A few days later the postman delivers a fine in the mail, so I ignored it as it wasn't sent by recorded delivery (so no proof of receipt). Now, by law in the UK, the police have 21 days to inform you of the offence and three weeks later I get another letter from the cops informing me that I have an unpaid fine. So I write to them and tell them that I never received it and that I have no recollection of being on that road. They then send me photographic evidence of my car being caught at 65 mph in a 50 zone and that I am obliged, by law, to declare who was driving. I write back and inform them that it was so long ago I have no memory of who might have been the designated driver, let alone even being on that road, and that because more than 21 days have passed they have failed to inform me of the offence. They write back with some nonsense about having proof that the letter was sent, but I argue that this isn't proof of receipt and that I'd be guessing if I declared who I think might have been driving that day. Result being that I never heard from them again.

[-] heavydust@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 weeks ago

expected ... traffic speed

You're not supposed to be speeding you know?

[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

Where I live, if you're driving the speed limit on the highway, you'd best be in the slow lane...and you'd still have people passing you.

[-] Copythis@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

I'll never forget my first time driving in Southern California.

I was doing 85mph in a 70mph zone and a prius flew past me.

Tell that to like 99% of drivers on the Interstate-95 around the PA-NJ Turnpike section (USA btw).

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2025
1 points (100.0% liked)

No Stupid Questions

37462 readers
294 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS