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[-] Technus@lemmy.zip 110 points 1 month ago

My phone struggled to load the site to order a single cold brew, pop-ups to install the custom App kept obscuring the options, and I had to register with my phone number, email address, and first and last name to buy a $5 cup of coffee.

Then walk out. Don't reward the bullshit with your money. The coffee shop ain't gonna give a shit if you keep buying coffee just to go home and complain on your blog.

[-] multiplewolves@lemmy.world 29 points 1 month ago

Came here to say this. I will never be compelled to install an app on my phone by an eatery the first time I go there. That is severely hostile design. Don’t willingly inconvenience yourself just to freely provide them your tracking info to sell.

[-] Krelis_@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Or.. ask the staff for a menu, order with them, respectfully let them know how you feel about the qr/app thing (unlikely it was their decision to implement but they can pass on the complaint), and if they're unwilling to take your order (which is hopefully unlikely at this point) feel free to make a little stink (if you feel inclined) and walk out. Still ok to complain on your blog about being spammed with the app but I'd rather try the obvious options first rather than expect the owners to heuristically discover via non-returning customers that we really don't want the app.

That is, if the coffee/food/service is good, otherwise yea fuck em

[-] fan0m@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Boy do I have a story for you.

I tried to order a quesadilla from chipotle. An online exclusive. Turns out online ordering for the location nearest me was broken so I went in and explained that I was unable to order it, and I asked if I can just get one anyway. They flat out said no.

They refused to sell me a cheese quesadilla simply because it wasn’t ordered through their app/site which was broken. I just left and got food somewhere else.

I’ve been boycotting chipotle ever since.

[-] Technus@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago

That's assuming the employees give enough of a shit to pass the feedback on to the owners, and that the owners give enough of a shit to listen.

Yeah, it's better if you make it known why you're not giving them your business, but if it doesn't appreciably impact their revenue then most owners won't care either way.

[-] hsdkfr734r@feddit.nl 80 points 1 month ago

I don't agree. Technology in itself is not helpful nor harmful. It's a tool like a hammer or a knife or a pen and a block of paper.

I agree if one says that technology makes it easier to do harm.:) People and their motives and actions are the same as always, since the stone age and ago.

[-] CameronDev@programming.dev 54 points 1 month ago

Tech speeds things up. If you want to do good, it'll help you do it faster. If you want to do evil, it'll help you do it faster.

[-] Dimmer@leminal.space 10 points 1 month ago

in my opinion, at this point of history, FAST is inherently detrimental. Only those with privilege and resources are able to adapt to rapid changes and reap their benefits, while the rest are left behind.

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[-] JollyG@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I think when most people say something like “technology is making the world worse” they mean the technology as it actually exists and as it is actually developing, not the abstract sense of possible futures that technology could feasibly deliver.

That is clearly what the author of the piece meant.

If the main focus of people who develop most technology is getting people more addicted to their devices so they are easier to exploit then technology sucks. If the main focus is to generate immoral levels of waste to scam venture capitalists and idiots on the internet then technology sucks. If the main focus is to use technology to monetize every aspect of someone’s existence, then I think it is fair to say that technology, at this point in history, sucks.

Saying “technology is neutral” is not super insightful if, in the present moment, the trend in technological development and its central applications are mostly evil.

Saying “technology is neutral” is worse than unhelpful if, in the present moment, the people who want to use technology to harm others are also using that cliche to justify their antisocial behavior.

[-] hsdkfr734r@feddit.nl 3 points 1 month ago

When the discussion is about whether technology + an unregulated human society is likely to end badly, then there is not much to discuss.

There are real life test series. In the 80s many countries put rules into place which forced the industry to filter/ treat their emissions. Technology gooood.

Some countries restrict their people's access to personal fire arms more than others. Statistics show that shootings are more likely, when everybody has a gun. Technology baaad.

In my opinion it is mostly about the common rules a society agrees on. Technology amplifies both ways and needs to be moderated when it is misused.

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[-] theluddite@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I didn't find the article particularly insightful but I don't like your way of thinking about tech. Technology and society make each other together. Obviously, technology choices like mass transit vs cars shape our lives in ways that the pens example doesn't help us explain. Similarly, society shapes the way that we make technology. Technology is constrained by the rules of the physical world, but that is an underconstraint. The leftover space (i.e. the vast majority) is the process through which we embed social values into the technology. To return to the example of mass transit vs cars, these obviously have different embedded values within them, which then go on to shape the world that we make around them.

This way of thinking helps explain why computer technology specifically is so awful: Computers are shockingly general purpose in a way that has no parallel in physical products. This means that the underconstraining is more pronounced, so social values have an even more outsized say in how they get made. This is why every other software product is just the pure manifestation of capitalism in a way that a robotic arm could never be.

edit to add that this argument is adapted from Andrew Feenberg's "Transforming Technology"

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[-] nickhammes@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

I think I basically agree with you and the author here. People applying technology have a responsibility to apply it in ways that are constructive, not harmful. Technology is a force multiplier, in that it makes it easy to achieve goals, in a value neutral sense.

But way too many people are applying technology in evil ways, extracting value instead of creating it, making things worse rather than better. It's an epidemic. Tech can make things better, and theoretically it should, but lately, it's hard to say it has, on the net.

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[-] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 47 points 1 month ago

For the past 20 years, tech has promised to make things more efficient while making almost everything more complicated and less meaningful. Innovation, for innovation's sake, has eroded our craftsmanship, relationships, and ability to think critically.

I feel this in my bones.

[-] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

For many things I completely agree.

That said, we just had our second kid, and neither set of grandparents live locally. That we can video chat with our family


for free, essentially!


is astonishing. And it's not a big deal, not something we plan, just, "hey let's say hi to Gramma and Gramps!"

When I was a kid, videoconferencing was exclusive to seriously high end offices. And when we wanted to make a long distance phone call, we'd sometimes plan it in advance and buy prepaid minutes (this was on a landline, mid 90s maybe). Now my mom can just chat with her friend "across the pond" whenever she wants, from the comfort of her couch, and for zero incremental cost.

I think technology that "feels like tech" is oftentimes a time sink and a waste. But the tech we take for granted? There's some pretty amazing stuff there.

[-] ch00f@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

for free, essentially!

Say that to the Facebook Portal: a fantastic product five years ago that is now having its features gutted because Meta couldn't figure out how to make money off of it.

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[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago

They're conflating tech with tech bros.

Tech can and does make lots of things that make our lives longer and better. Just not most of the consumer level shit that is constantly peddled by snake oil sellers. That tech is not meant to make your lives easier, it's meant to get more money out of you without giving it up to the little people at service level.

The problem isn't the tech, it's the people who are controlling the tech.

[-] htrayl@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Tech has made things more efficient - the rewards of such are simply being funneled from the average person to the wealthy.

[-] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

I feel this every time I just want to see a restaurant's menu and instead I have to pretend I'm making an online order.

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[-] barryamelton@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 month ago

Tech is a tool. It can be benefitting the oligarchs and restrictive, or benefitting society and open source.

[-] LordCrom@lemmy.world 37 points 1 month ago

"In some parts of the city, you can't even park your car anymore without downloading an app."

Omg, this. I left my phone at home by accident and quickly found out that I could not pay a meter on the area I went to .... You had to download an app to pay or use you phone to register a phone number and manually enter a plate and credit card.

No phone.....meant no parking.

Good luck too if your phone happens to run out of battery.

[-] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

Yep, technofeudalism is here.

[-] OhNoMoreLemmy@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

Yeah but parking has always been bad.

You had to carry change. Meters were always out of order or would just eat your change without issuing a ticket, and the people checking never gave a shit and would give you a fine anyway.

My only complaint is the app, everyone should offer a website or an app, but if you're going to park there a few times an app does make sense.

[-] T156@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Neither a phone nor website would work if your phone battery is flat. The meter should at least have a way for someone to park their car if they don't have a functioning phone, or internet access, even before the hellscape of needing a separate app for everything.

[-] OhNoMoreLemmy@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

You're in a car. There's probably a charging port there. Sucks if you don't have a phone, but it sucked before when you didn't have change.

Parking has always been a privilege not a right, and if you're not prepared you're going to get a ticket.

I get that it's annoying but if my phone broke and I suddenly had to pay for parking with coins, I don't know what I'd do either. Everything is cashless now, where would I get coins from?

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[-] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 month ago

Yet more benefits to cycling then. Just lock it to any reasonably sturdy object.

[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 35 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm tired of people seeing everything as binary good or bad. We have more than two brain cells, and life isn't a fucking meme.

[-] shortrounddev@lemmy.world 31 points 1 month ago

The internet peaked in utility around 2004. Most, if not all, developments since then have only made things worse

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

I do think you're right. Friendster and MySpace were pretty much the peak, then when real social media took over, it all went to shit. Since then, tech exists not to perform some function but to justify its existence specifically to earn money.

[-] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

I think in terms of cultural exchange of ideas and the enjoyment of being on the internet, 2005-2015 or so was probably the best. The barrier to entry was lowered to where almost anyone could make a meme or post a picture or upload a video or write a blog post or even a microblog post or forum comment of a single sentence and it might go viral through the power of word of mouth.

Then when there was enough value in going viral people started gaming for that as a measure of success, so that it no longer was a reliable metric for quality.

But plenty of things are now better. I think maps and directions are better with a smartphone. Access to music and movies is better than ever. It's nice to be able to seamlessly video chat with friends and family. There's real utility there, even if you sometimes have to work around things that aren't ideal.

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[-] leadore@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As someone who grew up before the negative effects of computer/internet technology became apparent, and who was excited and impatient for it to develop, I agree with the points made in the article. It didn't have to be this way; in a different kind of society it could have been a boon to everyone. But in our society all the benefits of good things are appropriated by the powerful so they can more readily exploit the less powerful for profit.

So many wonderful possible benefits that might have come from these technological advancements, to help people lead better lives, to address many of society's issues (hunger, climate change, disabilities, education, etc) simply never happened, because in our society money must be invested to develop them, so only things that would make more profits for the greedy were able to be developed. Yes, some things did get funded by governments or foundations, but they're only a drop in the bucket to what could be done.

[-] aesthelete@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It didn’t have to be this way; in a different kind of society it could have been a boon to everyone.

Please continue to espouse this viewpoint even under serious argument from those opposing it. Technology isn't inevitably shit. There are other types of software we can write, and other types of technology we can develop that isn't the result of some sweaty CTO hovering over our shoulders demanding that we make the world shittier for the sake of the shareholders.

We have to imagine the worlds we could've created through better choices. We have to imagine that we can change the course of things.

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[-] venotic@kbin.melroy.org 17 points 1 month ago

I'm tired of the people who are the ones that have taken tech to the direction it has gone in for a long while now. Making up problems that weren't ever there before that suddenly now need a stupid app or a feature to fix but adds in its own problems.

I'm tired of big tech deciding when we should upgrade because they deliberately create things that break, degrade and becomes obsolete far shorter than whatever should have.

I'm tired of unnecessary things like added fees for 'convenience'. I'm tired of things like fucking google flipping back accounts on me when I need to see a number to another account.

So much shit is that I'm tired about with tech. Tech is supposed to be exciting, easier, friendlier. Now it's just manipulated into a problem of its own, simply because of those who are behind it.

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[-] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 month ago

I don't want to read this article, because I know it's right, and it's depressing.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 month ago

Scenario1:

"Um, hi. Can I just order here inside? Thanks. I'm really hating the apps now. For sure: one medium cold-brew, please. Yes, thanks, to go. Okay; tap here? Excellent. Oh. Put 'guppy' on the cup. Thanks! [pause] Oh, perfect. Hey, thanks again for letting me skip the app. Those are so frustrating! I'm really starting to avoid any place that uses them, and I'm so grateful I can still come in. Have a great day!"

Scenario2:

"Um, hi. Can I just order here? No? Just the app? That's too bad: I'm really getting frustrated with the app and I'm starting to avoid places that need them. Nope, that's all I needed, sorry. Thanks anyway, and have a great day!"

I like this idea because

  1. you're affirming the target behaviour
  2. you're getting a coffee and going
  3. you're being chipper so they don't feed off your grumpy face
  4. you're providing feedback without being too much 'that guy', I hope, to the serving staff.

In all things, you don't wanna be That Guy, because you know servers don't need that shit. But, while the odds are slim of feedback getting up the chain of command, you're being clear (and probably more concise) as to how to get more of your business in case the feedback DOES go up.

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[-] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm tired of people saying "technology" when they mean an application of a narrow subfield of technology. Even worse is when they're not even talking about the tech at all, but instead the practices, leadership, or stock market performance of some corporation that happens to apply some technology in the course of its business.

I do share the sentiment in this article, though. There's way too much stuff that we don't need, often making our lives worse, being pushed at us in order to extract wealth or power.

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[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

I like playing video games...

[-] Xerxos@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

Tech could make our life easier, if only the fruits of increased efficiency would go towards us all instead of the few rich people at the top.

[-] Evkob@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 month ago

I work in a coffee shop; I already feel sufficiently dehumanized by the amount of people who answer my "how are you today?" with "cappuccino to-go". I would hate to work in a café where you order via your phone.

[-] LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

Honestly? Cool that you are asking, but I just want a coffee, not a conversation.

Yes, I'm German, how could you tell?

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[-] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago

Tech was ruined in the 90s when capitalistic influences (microsoft being the dominant force but far from the only one) propagandized the industry and eventually populace at large with the idea that competition in the industry is what drives innovation.

Granted, much of their work was already done for them thanks to western influence perpetuating this ideal for ages. But when the frameworks for open standards, interoperability, and collaborative development were being proposed and put into place they were shot down and/or actively sabotaged

As a result 40 years later we have this mess. A landscape filled with nightmare tech. Fragmentation everywhere, design heavily influenced by a small handful of sociopaths with no empathy and active disdain for users, the idea of open standards is something that requires government intervention (and still rarely occurs), interoperability is something that has to be hacked around and frequently breaks as a means to encourage purchasing a competing product.

What could have been. Tech designed for people’s needs rather than tech designed to extract income

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[-] NostraDavid@programming.dev 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I dont know... This Linux thing is pretty great, IMO.

I get their point, but it feels like it's more about tech being abused by large corporations, trying to squeeze another cent out of you.

[-] SuiXi3D@fedia.io 6 points 1 month ago

God, same. I'm to the point where I don't even want a phone at all anymore. I'm so tired of just... everything.

[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Tech definitely is. Gate-keeping, stupid pricing, etc. done by few corporations and individual isn't.

[-] Eezyville@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago

Tech doesn't make the world better. It's a tool that's been used to make rich people richer. Everyday people coming together for a greater cause makes the world better.

[-] MusketeerX@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago

Technology has started to make it easier and easier to be anti consumer. To maximise how much you can extract out of consumers.

It is making it easier to understand and control exactly how they use products and services. This allows you to structure your price and offering to give them the minimum amount they'll accept at the maximum price. Allows you to strip features out and offer them for extra. Allows you to hide things behind ongoing subscriptions. Allows you to better lock people into products and services, making it more difficult to switch/leave.

All of this was possible (and being done) before, but technology makes this so much easier/better.

Technologies often start out by making something easier for the consumer. But beyond the early stages, it's all about making the world better - for the corporations developing and selling products and services.

[-] VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 month ago

I remember Andrewism's take on Luddites dispelling a lot of common misconceptions (and results of propaganda, iirc) on the topic

[-] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

Technology and progress were at one time closer to synonymous but those definitions have forked widely. It's important to identify what is a development that brings value and pushes progress and what is a use of technology that punishes us, controls us, or simply makes life more complicated. The vast majority of technology now falls into these categories.

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this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2025
508 points (95.0% liked)

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