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[-] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 54 points 5 days ago

This is (fortunately) why there's a maximum size on insects. The environment is less oxygen rich today than in the eras of giant insects in the past. They reach a size where oxygen can't penetrate deeply enough onto their bodies.

[-] excral@feddit.org 16 points 4 days ago

It's all based on a very fundamental mathematical law: if you increase the size of something, the volume increases with the third power while the surface area increases with the second power. An insect twice as large would be 8x as heavy and need 8x as much oxygen but 4x as much surface area.

That's also the reason why insects are as strong as they are. The strength of a muscle scales primarily with the cross section area of it, which again scales with the second power. So if you'd increase the weight of an ant by a factor 10,000,000 (e.g. 5mg to 50kg), the expected strength would increase by 10,000,000^(2/3) ≈ 46,400. If it could lift 10x it's weight at the original size, it could now only lift about 4.6% of it's weight

[-] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

Square Cube Law

[-] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 4 days ago

Reminds me of how the damage to roads scales with the weight of the vehicle to the 4th power, so someone driving a 6000lb pickup does 16x more damage to roads than a 3000lb sedan

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[-] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 13 points 5 days ago

maybe once I have money for hobbies, but I really want to make oxygen rich terrariums, and selectively breed tarantulas to see if I can make them larger.

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[-] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 66 points 5 days ago

And, for the most part, humans' lungs don't have bees!

I somehow forgot about bees not having lungs. I knew some other small things didn't.

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[-] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 75 points 6 days ago

So if I understand you correctly, if I remove my lungs, I’m a bee? My aunt had lung cancer, so they’ll probably kill me, anyway. I’ll report back on the results.

[-] tahoe@lemmy.world 81 points 6 days ago

No because you’re likely too big (no offense) :(

I think insects have little holes all over their bodies, in which air gets inside by itself through some physics shenanigans. It doesn’t need to be actively sucked in like with lungs, it just happens because they’re so small.

This method doesn’t scale up though since if you’re bigger, you need more air, and having little holes all over your body won’t cut it. Thats when you know you need lungs, and that’s why you don’t see insects the size of a dog these days (thankfully).

There used to be times in the Earth’s history (Carboniferous) where the air’s composition was different though, and since it had more oxygen in it, insects could grow a lot larger.

[-] Metz@lemmy.world 53 points 6 days ago

Fun fact: Cutaneous respiration (aka "Skin breathing") is something we humans do too. But it accounts only for 1% to 2% of our oxygen input.

However, the cornea of ​​our eyes doesn't have its own blood vessels to supply it. Therefore, it relies on direct gas exchange with the environment—in other words, skin respiration.

Our eyes breath like bees.

[-] dave@feddit.uk 28 points 6 days ago

Is that why bees can't wear contact lenses?

[-] Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world 42 points 6 days ago

No, it's because they have compound eyes. Even if they could afford all the different lenses they need, they'd never have enough time to put them in and take them out, while still working a full day.

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[-] Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world 26 points 6 days ago

Yeah, and if you pluck a chicken, it will be a human, because it's featherless and stands on two legs.

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[-] NoOutlinesBand@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago

"I've been trying to quit smoking. I want to take better care of my spiracles"

[-] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 37 points 5 days ago

Insects don't have lungs. It also means their potential size is directly limited by the oxygen content in the air.

Which is why we don't see cat sized insects roaming around.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 15 points 5 days ago

Which is why you don't see cat sized insects roaming around, I live next to a tarantula trail and some of them fuckers get BIG.

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 11 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Spiders aren't insects. Though like them, they don't have lungs! Not ones like ours, anyway.

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[-] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 8 points 5 days ago

tarantulas do indeed have lungs though

[-] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 days ago

Arachnids are not insects though.

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[-] count_dongulus@lemmy.world 57 points 6 days ago

Beekeepers intentionally use smoke to make bees docile during collection time, transfers, etc

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[-] Wilco@lemm.ee 11 points 4 days ago

Wait until this person hears about fish.

[-] LordOfLocksley@lemmy.world 33 points 6 days ago

Huh, the Greek hero Spiracles saved the bees

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[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 days ago

Like most others I have not read the article. But someone please answer me this:

If the bees fell asleep, then why didn't the fire kill them? I can accept that insects don't have lungs, I mean some people are doing well without hearts... but am I supposed to accept that bees are also immune to fire damage?

[-] Plaidboy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 days ago

The bees were on a different lower down roof from the main roof (which is the one that burned). The article notes that bee wax melts at 70C and they didn't see any of that under the hives, so they know temperatures stayed below that. So the bees were likely only exposed to some smoke and maybe some slightly elevated temperatures.

[-] Abird1620@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Put simply smoke doesn't have to be hot. Smoke is just unburnt fuel caused by a process called offgassing (solid turning to a gas).

An example of cooled down smoke is a fire that starts in a well sealed room. It burns through as much fuel as possible, and while the solids are hot they turn into gas, however, due to a lack of oxygen, you don't necessarily see combustion. So then the fire snuffs itself out and what you are left with is a cooling smoke.

So let's say that the fire is on an upper floor. Heat goes up, cold goes down. So as smoke travels through a building it cools, and may eventually sink towards the ground or a lower level (this can be especially possible in a building as large as a cathedral) smoke sinks and interacts with bees at a "manageable temperature".

Tldr: smoke isn't always hot. The bees are happy.

Well that's a Christmas spiracle

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[-] woodenghost@hexbear.net 26 points 5 days ago

It's what limits their size. If insects had lungs, they could get larger. 300 million years ago, when the oxygen content in the atmosphere was temporarily higher, there were huge dragonflies with 75 cm wingspan (2.5 ft).

[-] manny_stillwagon@mander.xyz 17 points 5 days ago

In the original Jurassic Park novel by Michael Crichton, one of the animals they've cloned are these giant dragonflies. Its only one line in the book (Tim, one if the kids, sees one fly by and recalls reading about them) but it caught my attention as just straight impossible. I remember thinking, "Unless you're somehow controlling the oxygen level of the air around this entire island, there's no way that bug can't breathe."

[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 28 points 6 days ago

Hold on, wait a minute, pause. There are people who think that bugs have lungs?

[-] Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world 34 points 6 days ago

To be fair, while bugs and other insects don't have lungs, some arthropods do. The differences among arthropods, insects and bugs aren't exactly common knowledge.

[-] TomasEkeli@programming.dev 26 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

some have book-lungs not true lungs. Only us fish have "true" lungs

edit: this thread turned into nerd-heaven. i love it!

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[-] Maalus@lemmy.world 15 points 5 days ago

It's funny that this is biology in 4th grade and half the people here are shocked

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[-] Alpha71@lemmy.world 27 points 6 days ago
[-] AppleTea@lemmy.zip 70 points 6 days ago

Not just bees, it's true of all insects.

Consequently, the amount of oxygen in the air determines how big bugs can grow. Get too big, and the oxygen can't diffuse into the body fast enough. This even shows up in the fossil records, with larger bugs being found alongside evidence of eras that had more oxygen in the atmosphere.

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[-] Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml 8 points 5 days ago

Why doesn't the damaging and hot particulate matter in smoke do any harm to or otherwise clog up their spiracles like it does to the inner lining of lungs? I gather lungs are wet and also very delicate, but if they're directly oxygenating their organs through these spiracles eventually it must get to somewhere wet and delicate for the smoke to get in and potentially harm.

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[-] match@pawb.social 15 points 6 days ago

they don't have circulatory systems either they've basically just pushing things through themselves and tryna make it work

[-] Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world 24 points 6 days ago

Pedant here. They absolutely do have circulatory systems. They have what's known as an open circulatory system, whereas we have a closed circulatory system.

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this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2025
995 points (99.5% liked)

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