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this post was submitted on 15 May 2025
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chapotraphouse
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In the context of deciding not to go overseas to murder people fighting a war of national liberation.
Do you honestly believe that was his motivation?
the point is you, being a liberal, are supporting imperial bullshit by framing draft dodging as a bad thing, attacking Trump as a draft dodger reinforces "draft dodging bad" dummy
As a 3rd generation socialist, I take offense to that.
As an actual socialist, I take offense to your libshit takes.
So, you think it's acceptable for wealthy people to be allowed to avoid the obligations placed on poorer folks, simply because they were born rich?
That is a very interesting take...for an "actual socialist".
I think it's unacceptable to serve in an imperialist military against an actually, existing socialist country. You either desert, dodge, or frag. If you don't do any of those things, you are contributing towards reaction.
We hanged people at Nuremberg who were "just following orders." Vietnam should have been no different, given what the US did to those people.
Cool.
But have you considered that the draft is something that the wealthy inflict upon the working class...knowing that they can simply buy their way out of it?
And right now, you're the one defending a literal fascist, for exercising that privilege like he's some kind of "conscientious objector"?
How does that make sense to you?
What the fuck are you even talking about? There are people right now in Isreal sitting in jail cells because they refuse to participate in Gaza. I guess if they're rich, they should be required to go kill some kids instead of buying their way out of it? Who gives a shit? The choice is to not carry out imperialism. It is materially better for Vietnam to not have more Americans invading their country.
Fuck out of here with this liberal bullshit.
And you think that Trump "chose not to carry out imperialism" when his Dad got that doctor to sign off on his bone spurs?
Are you seriously that deluded?
We're not asking you to hand it to the fascists.
We're asking you not to frame draft dodging in the US as a bad thing.
Nobody here thinks that, they consider not going abroad to kill people a good thing regardless of the reason he did it. Do you think John McCain was a better person than Trump? He literally volunteered to go bomb Hanoi.
That's... objectively what it meant to dodge the draft, whatever was going on in his head is irrelevant to the material fact
yeah I gotta say that's the right choice in almost any circumstance.
its OK to make a choice to do a good thing even if it's unfairly easy for you to do that good thing compared to others. you still did a good thing!
the problem with privilege is that it's unfairly distributed to a select few. instead of taking it away, it should be extended to everyone.
Jesus fucking christ your parents and grandparents must be so ashamed of you right now.
Why? Do you think they would approve of a wealthy man bribing a doctor in order to avoid service that a poor man could not?
do you think they would approve of the same wealthy man murdering poor rice farmers because it would be naughty to get out of it? Because that's the position you're defending. Trump's hypocrisy is apparently worse than murdering poor people on the other side of the world. But hey I guess they aren't American so it doesn't count, huh?
Also, around 0.6% of draft dodgers went to prison. The conscripts who went didn't go because they couldn't get out of it. They went because they were propagandised to think that America is good. Even if it actually were common for poor people to be imprisoned for resisting service that would still be no excuse for flying to the other side of the world to murder poor rice farmers.
But again, they're not American, so they don't really count. All of your pathetic whining about hypocrisy only adds up to - the hypocrisy of one rich dickhead is more important than the lives of Vietnamese people. And that's disgusting.
Socialism is not inherited
That would make a hilarious quote for the hexbear header btw
Socialism had been a major part of my family going back to WW2, when my grandfather fought Nazis in Norway. He raised my father on Socialist principles, and my father raised me on them.
What else would you call that?
Who cares? The fact that he didn't go overseas to murder people is still good.
Sure he could have died, which would also be good, but is that worth the death and destruction he would have caused?
Motivation doesn't matter if he made the right decision.
Motivation is what defines whether or not the decision was "right".
This is your brain on idealism.
If I steal a baby’s lollipop but I have goodwill in my heart then I’m actually doing a kind thing
That baby was an ORANGE CHEETO! Which makes it ok.
Okay, and what motivation do you see for fighting in the Vietnam war do you think he had that is defensible and somehow better than dodging the draft? Even if this ridiculous, anti-materialist take were true it would STILL be aggressively fucking stupid.
If you believe that abortion is murder, are you right to kill doctors that perform abortions? What about maiming them with intent to prevent them from working, or firebombing their clinics? You are, after all, motivated to stop murders.
thank you for gracing us with your wisdom oh learned one. I see now that intentions are the fundamental determiner of ethical action. truly deontology and consequentialism are philosophies of the damned!
in all seriousness please read a book on moral philosophy. there's so much more!
You are my absolute favorite lib, please come back again and teach us more!