this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
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I was talking about Finns in Finland complaining about speed cameras.
I would just assumed because they are using the same Swedish company (Sensys Gatso) that does profit sharing agreements with municipalities in the US, that the agreement is the same.
I can't seem to find the finnish contract award details, so I can't confirm that they are. I am thinking now, that their might be a chance that they aren't, given how extreme finnish traffic violation costs can be (% of salary).
If you're going to issue fines for speeding, this is the most just way to do it though.
We'll never do that in the US because we hate the poor.
It's only % of salary (day fines) for more severe offenses, in this case for really speeding. Normal speeding tickets are just a set sum.
Here's a pic showing the amounts. It has the speed limit, how much over the limit you were and how much you end up paying as a fine. Bottom one is "regardless of the limit" and "over 20 km/h", so whenever you go over by over 20 km/h, you pay "day fines".
I agree it would be more just if it were all based on income, but even this:
...is far more just than here in the US where income is never considered.
So my statement is still accurate. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Perhaps you can explain?
Friend, I'm just trying to be helpful and note that it's not all speeding tickets.
What's up with people online thinking everything is an argument lol
The real problem is that people want to argue technicalities that deflect from the main point. For people who aren't paying attention, they might come across this and think, "Oh, well I guess the US system isn't so unjust after all."
The Finnish system is probably inequitable, too! But it's objectively not as inequitable as the US system, at least not where traffic fines are concerned. There's nuance.
I was just noting that it's not all (or most) traffic fines, since it's a common misconception. That is all.
The minimum cost of a speeding ticket in Finland is €125 which is closer to an average American speeding ticket, not the minimum.
So what's the point? How does this not make it more equitable to adjust it by income from there? That's still extremely more equitable than our wildly unjust system that's only designed to punish the poor.
Edit: Also, that's totally wrong. If I convert euros to USD, then that's ~$135, which is way less than an average speeding ticket in the US. Last one I had was more than $200, and that was in 2010. You're wrong.
Weirdly confrontational?
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/cost-of-car-ownership/cost-of-speeding-ticket.htm
Average ticket is 150 in America, which is pretty close to 135.
So a speeding ticket in Finland likely wouldn't benefit poor people, but it would hurt rich people more.
I'm in the lower income bracket, and I haven't had one that low since the 90s. That figure must be skewed by places like Nowhereville where the police are so corrupt that they issue $10 tickets to family members or something, because $150 is not a realistic figure for most people. I bet if we looked into that, we'd find some really creative methodology.
$150? Ain't no way...
Or you are admittedly a repeat offender, which would likely also increase your fines in Finland.
Heres NY, which I can imagine we agree isnt Nowhereville.
https://trafficsafety.ny.gov/penalties-speeding
Minimum fine for up to 10mph over is 45$. 90$ for 10-30mph over. 30+mph over is a minimum of 180$
How much are you (plural) even speeding to have such expensive tickets?
Or do you get a $150+ ticket for driving 70 in a 60 zone?
It seems like a fairly risky assumption to make just from you having it work like that in the US.
As a side note, that % thing (day fines) don't cover all speeding tickets, since they're considered so minor. It's the bigger offenses (of speed limits and in general) that are covered. So it actually covers other stuff too, not just speeding.
Here's a pic showing the amounts. It has the speed limit, how much over the limit you were and how much you end up paying as a fine. Bottom one is "regardless of the limit" and "over 20 km/h", so whenever you go over by over 20 km/h, you pay "day fines".