Americans are a very silly people (pbs.twimg.com)

submitted 8 months ago by CyborgMarx@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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[-] duderium@hexbear.net 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

East is a Podcast has a great episode on how Dune is orientalist btw. I can’t help liking Dune (the book and the Syfy miniseries) but still.

[-] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 21 points 8 months ago

LotR, as much as I love it, is definitely orientalist too.

[-] duderium@hexbear.net 14 points 8 months ago

“Why won’t you commies let me enjoy my slop???” Actually I can enjoy it while understanding that it is politically problematic. The orcs in LOTR are basically the Nazi vision of Judeo-Bolsheviks and it’s no surprise that the Ukrainians were calling Russians orcs during the SMO.

[-] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 10 points 8 months ago

How are orcs supposed to be Judeo-Bolsheviks?

[-] Smeagolicious@hexbear.net 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I assumed he meant the Orcs are the spitting image of the Nazi portrayal of "Judeo-Bolsheviks" as ugly, corrupt, soulless, scheming subhuman hordes, not that Tolkien himself wrote them to be stand ins for Jews or Communists

[-] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 6 points 8 months ago

I hope not anyway.

But love your username, very appropriate. Haha

[-] duderium@hexbear.net 3 points 8 months ago

Uhhh don’t look up what Tolkien thought about communism. The Scouring of the Shire is basically his mini-1984. The guy was a libertarian monarchist so his views of “easterners” were uhhh less than kosher. The Orc language is also Anatolian, Tolkien clearly expresses bizarre views about racial miscegenation, it just goes on and on. But yeah I still like it although I’m not sure I’ll ever bother to watch or read it again.

[-] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 4 points 8 months ago

I don’t think your depiction of the Scouring of the Shire is wrong, I just don’t want to believe it’s true and I think the allusions to communism are bare enough I am able to let myself believe that.

[-] Smeagolicious@hexbear.net 2 points 8 months ago

I mean thats a fair reaction, I'm just not 100% sure he consciously decided fo portray the orcs as communists per se, rather than the societal trend towards industrialization and despoiling of nature (though with the depiction of orcs, tropes associated with "collectivist" stereotypes are pretty prevalent......😬).

That said, the link between the orcs and turkish/mongol portrayals is not up for debate lol, that aspect of the depiction is a huge L for JRR.

As for the Jewish part of "Judeo-Bolshevik", weren't the dwarves at least in part influenced by Tolkien's views on jewish culture & language?

Anyway I'm not gonna defend this dead racist nerd any more lol

[-] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 6 points 8 months ago

I don’t actually have much of a problem with orcs, it’s the depiction of the “evil men” allied with Sauron as almost exclusively having darker skin and with oriental-coded equipment like scimitars and other descriptors. Especially in contrast to the exclusively euro-coded “good guys”. And then there’s Ghan-Buri-Ghan…