102
top 32 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] Lerios@hexbear.net 34 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

what they did with amita pissed me off no end. i was too young to be a rea communist yet, but i was definitely a feminist, and the false equivalence this game insists on between women's rights and fucking "authoritian" nofreezepeach regime really irked me. i think this was probably the first video game i ever had politics about

.also i'm sure it didn't hurt that i was 14 and just realising i was gay, so amita was very soviet-bashful for me

[-] vegeta1@hexbear.net 17 points 3 days ago

Especially with her past being told as a child she needed to get married

[-] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 33 points 3 days ago

Isn't the best ending whereyou wait 15 minutes for the dictator dude to come back at the beginning of game.

[-] cerealkiller@hexbear.net 23 points 3 days ago

Yup and It's fucking awesome.

[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 17 points 3 days ago

Don't you get an achievement called something like 'Enjoyed the crab puffs'?

[-] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 15 points 3 days ago
[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 7 points 3 days ago

It was a decade ago, once, but I stand corrected as I do love seafood treats peltier-laugh

[-] Blakey@hexbear.net 14 points 3 days ago

Wait, that's 4? Huh. Never did get far, most open world stuff is pretty dull to me. I still think Elden Ring is the best open world game ever and that the open world is the worst thing about Elden Ring.

[-] vegeta1@hexbear.net 18 points 3 days ago

Amita uses child slaves for a narco empire. Sabal wants child marriage back. I swear I saw somewhere that there is a way to kill all three.

[-] cerealkiller@hexbear.net 15 points 3 days ago

You can kill all three. Because I did lol. I accidentally killed the main villain king guy with grenades while he was escaping in a chopper.

[-] vegeta1@hexbear.net 8 points 3 days ago

....Oh damn really? This I will do in the future. That country has been through enough i-cant

[-] cerealkiller@hexbear.net 12 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Yeah all three are corrupt assholes who want to use you for their own gain and they drop their act post-main story when they come to power and you can just kill them.

[-] vegeta1@hexbear.net 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

My only question is who is the worst? Because I swear sabal may end up leading to genocide or something along those lines. May end up like Tibet

[-] cerealkiller@hexbear.net 7 points 3 days ago

Kinda hard to tell. But I think that the worst would be Sabal probably as you said. Though Pagan (king villain guy) already started mass murder and kidnapping in the game.

[-] Redcuban1959@hexbear.net 10 points 2 days ago

The First Kyrati Civil War was a war fought between the Nationalists who sought to overthrow Kyrat monarchy and the Royalists who defended royal family. The civil war started in 1984, ended in 1987 and was immediately followed by Second Kyrati Civil War within the same year. Pagan Min consolidated his grip on Kyrat in 1987, many native Kyrat citizens loyal to him (and likely some remnants of the Nationalists) joined his Royal Army, while most of his vast triad gang joined the Royal Guard. Some of his forces and the population refused to betray the Royalists however, they saved many survivors and stood by Mohan side.

Outraged by Pagan Min's betrayal, Mohan Ghale and the rest of the Royalists swore revenge, just when the First Kyrati Civil War ended, they immediately founded the Golden Path and fought against Pagan Min, thus began the Second Kyrati Civil War in 1987. The civil war raged on up to the 21st century.

Since Kyrat is inspired by Nepal, the civil war is analogous to the real life Nepalese Civil War, the Nationalists are analogous to the Maoists of Nepal and the Royalists are analogous to the Royal Nepali Army.

The Second Kyrati Civil War is a war fought between the Golden Path, (formerly backed by the US, namely the CIA) and Pagan Min regime with combined forces of the Royal Army and the Royal Guard. The Second Civil War started as a result of Pagan Min betraying the Royalists in the First Kyrati Civil War and establishing a monarchist dictatorship. Golden Path forces were led by Mohan Ghale up to 1990, in 21st century they are commanded by Amita and Sabal. The Royal Army is commanded by Paul "De Pleur" Harmon while the Royal Guard is commanded by Yuma Lau.

[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Tibetquest 2: Llama's Revenge

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 3 days ago

So, libertarianism?

[-] Sinisterium@hexbear.net 8 points 3 days ago

Wasnt far cry 1 about how africa is a corruptive force and the only way out is to kill africa? I swear I saw an essay about that.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 20 points 3 days ago

Far Cry 1 is about moving slowly through bushes to get sniped by an enemy with a handgun standing 300 meters away and facing the other direction

[-] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 15 points 3 days ago

Far Cry 1 is just 80s action movie schlock plot to keep the at the time pretty revolutionary gameplay moving. You're coolguy hawaiishirt out to rescue a hot broad from the evil dr. krieger and his mooks.

Whoever wrote that essay about Far Cry 2 must've been off his fucking rocker though. The game portrays you, the foreign mercenary, as a corruptive force on the unnamed african country. Your merc friends give you side objectives that are at morally best "free this POW" and regularly end up at "destroy this medical equipment in a clinic". You do this for literal blood diamonds that only ever buy you more weapons to expedite the process. The only other thing you need is malaria pills that you get for trading faked passports to priests so the civilians of the country you are currently blowing up can escape you.

[-] Sinisterium@hexbear.net 7 points 3 days ago
[-] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I'll give this a watch, thanks. Sounds a lot deeper than africa must be destroyed.

Obviously just 20 minutes in at this point but I think the criticism so far falls flat. Maybe I'll get my mind changed but I think the essay is ignoring some pretty important things so far.

Heart of Darkness does portray africa as a corruptive place, so the essay claims that you, the player character, come there, get caught up in the thing and then become shit. But they have backstorys that have 0 bearing on plot and gameplay. All of them full of extensive violence. It's pretty diverse politically, but I think the point is that these are fully formed garbage beings when they get there. I mean they're mercenaries for hire from when you start controlling them. I also don't understand where the author grabs the idea that you descend into the madness or that your friends do. They're all very sane, rational people. The game never really gets cooky with it.

You initially go there as a hit job on the Jackal, the arms dealer, who supplies both sides. The essay however seems to uncritically accept the premise presented in the game at the very start that someone - and who that is or was is never made clear in the game which I think is very intentional - a random, unsupported mercenary, is there to kill that one guy so that order may be restored. By whom that happens is also entirely unanswered. I think you're very much supposed to figure out that this was never, ever about doing good, just not right at the start. You came there on a hit job, you fucked up and since killing people for money is what you do, you start killing people for money until you get the guy. $20 in blood diamonds is $20 in Blood Diamonds regardless of who hands it to you. You're a mercenary for hire, caring about who you shoot is pretty much out of the question. I mean you can think the retired IDF corporal turned smuggler who takes hitjobs for money was an upstanding guy right up until he got to africa but then I might also think you got kicked in the head by a horse. The whole white man who gets corrupted, specifically, that's mentioned also falls entirely apart when you choose the guy from Algeria, Haiti, China or Mauritania as your player character.

I also don't understand how you can look at the guy that supplies arms to both the United Front for Blowing up Water Infrastructure and the Alliance of Bombing Medical Equipment concluding that he, the prolific international gun runner, isn't the problem, it's the country as agreeing with that idea. It's his conscious eating at him, it's why he grandstandingly quotes Nietzsche all the time to rationalize this. The takeaway from FC2 is much more "stop fucking with Africa".

EDIT: I'll continue this as I go I guess, his criticism of the fact that country is literally unnamed african country and a mishmash of africa as a colonial view is correct, but also it's the point. The entire game, barring the very last cutscene, is entirely from first person view. You, the mercenary for hire, don't care about what country this is past how shoots who and how you can get your hands on guns to also start shooting people. You see a wartorn country and figure you'll go in there in the side of war, you don't give a shit about culture and history.

EDIT 2: He's now getting into the factions and by this point I'm kind of getting the feeling he's taking a lot of things as face value or as an endorsement because the game says it. The two women, merc friends of yours ingame, that portray the faction leaders as garbage people - not that they aren't - one of them is a CIA agent, the other is former Cuban Intelligence Services that stayed back to fight UNITA for some reason.

Him just uncritically believing the faction leaders as they grandstand about pan-african unity and prosperity, one with a communist tint and the other with a monarchist one is also just very stupid. These people don't even care enough to publically ever admit they employ you, why would they not give you the fucking PR line for everything? "Comrade, to help build a united socialist africa we need you to blow up this childrens hospital in a black flag operation" is supposed to tell you something, but it's not that the leaders are idealistic but blind to what they're doing, being manipulated by their foreign aides.

EDIT 3: This is falling apart, he argues that the faction leaders are controlled by foreigners, which as mentioned I disagree with, but then also cites the guy selling them both guns who is very much not a native saying peace isn't possible here and them blaming ordering a childrens hospital blown up on the other faction that africa is just wartorn by default. If I follow the foreigners are the true leaders of the faction this entire ideal falls apart because it's all white guys doing all of this, not an endorsement that africa is just default wartorn because it's natives are too dumb for peace.

EDIT 4: I had to scroll back because I couldn't believe he actually did this, but when he portrays the mercenaries having taken over the factions he argues that this means they got corrupted into violence by africa and the guy in the footage was working for a shady PMC mostly operating in Latin America and the Caribbean since the 80s and is now doing this because his company fell apart. It's also implied he used to be in the Royal Air Force. This motherfucker did not start becoming violent in Africa.

EDIT 5: "This game portrays how Africa strips these people of their humanity" I say as I show, again, the CIA Agent that tasks you with burning down crop fields for blood diamonds. I feel like you have to be kind of racist to get to that conclusion.

This motherfucker is the most gullibe person on the planet. He portrays your mercenary "friends" betraying you as them descending into uncivilization due to africa and how they lose all ideals - motherfucker they're mercenaries! They're ideal is get paid! The reason they turn on you isn't because they got driven mad by the incivilisation of Africa it's because you got a great big suitcase full of diamonds! This isn't even subtle! Your "Friends" keep paying you to do warcrimes throughout the game! They started out garbage!

EDIT 6: So he just claimed that our player character mercenary was sent (again, by whom you dense idiot) to save the country but destroys it in the end because he got corrupted by Africa and I'm just aghast again how you can read and argue like modern critiques of how Heart of Darkness is colonial, still and then think foreign mercenaries going to africa for hit jobs is like, just generally a good thing and if the FC2 devs weren't racist they would've written about how the registered security guard from Florida (not making that one up) would've saved the country. The dudes solution to his perceived writing problems on Far Cry 2 is to make it Far Cry 3, curiously a game in which all of his criticisms would land entirely

EDIT 7: He's really giving the buddy system a lot of thematic and narrative depth that is not there especially for one of the first few missions. This is a random, other, mercenary you met like 3 days ago who will pay you more money to be more horrible.

EDIT 8: He's getting into the ludonarrative dissonance now between the action packed gameplay and the more melancholy storyline but Far Cry 2 is like among the worst example for that out there because your guns jam and blow up if you don't replenish them a lot, fire spreads wantonly and not according to neat area of effects and before and after every big boomfest you gotta drive long distances between every point since there is only very limited fast travel.

EDIT 9: Further evidence for the fact that Far Cry 2 as a medium thinks africa is a corrupting force: dialogue between two white mooks with heavy south african english accent involves them saying the country is cursed. Damning evidence, as far cry 2 generally makes it clear the people fighting there are otherwise good people

[-] codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 days ago

Sounds like a pretty poor analysis video, yeah. I won't go so far as to say FC2 is a masterpiece like some folks, but I do think time and genre-drift have been unkind to it's legacy.

FC2 and MGS4 came out the same year, 2008. Both are obsessed with mercenaries\PMCs because they'd been all over the news for almost 8 years of Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Mercenaries have always existed, but the US was suddenly very interested in exploring the morality of paid contract soldiers. MGS4 explores the high-concept idea of warfare as business, as technological frontier, and as a moral frontier in what paid soldiers are allowed to do versus "real soldiers".

FC2 is also exploring this question, but from a ground-level perspective. Solid Snake is a warrior for peace who ideologically and physically/violently opposes PMCs. Your main character in FC2 (one of many identically statted mercs to choose from) is meant to be part of the problem. I feel like the devs wanted you to experience the descent into violence and the way a person compromise their values for money and power. I also think this is a very hard theme to express with video games.

Thats why MGS4 is remembered well for it's anti-Merc stance, because its very blunt in the text. FC2 stance is more nuanced. They never outright tell you what you are doing is wrong (actually I'm pretty sure they do a few times) but it's notoriously hard to make players feel like a bad guy when they're the main character. You are meant to, as 7bicycles just demonstrated, step back and see that nothing you've done has helped this country. FC2 isnt just anti-merc, it's also anti-adventurism and anti-interventionism.

I think the disempowering aspects--guns jamming all the time, having maleria, fires constantly sweeping around you and causing problems--are meant to be part of that experience. To get you to say, "wow, war sucks, and even being 'the main character' sucks in real war."

[-] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago

Sounds like a pretty poor analysis video, yeah.

It's incredible how well read the guy is and how much effort is put into this video only to whiff every single point because the essayists thought the jackal was supposed to be the good guy and your seasoned mercenary character and all his friends came to africa as good, upstanding citizens.

Other than that I don't even think FC2 is all that subtle. You get to like mission three or four depending on how you count where you're tasked with destroying an irrigation system with the optional side objective of stealing agent orange that your buddy can spray over the fields from an airplane. This is immediatly followed by killing the police chief

[-] codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 days ago

Other than that I don't even think FC2 is all that subtle.

Fair point, haha. I don't recall where I read about this, but ive seen the notion brought up in several mediums: it is difficult to break an audiences' tendency to see the protagonist of a story as morally correct, no matter what they do.

It's a problem with all media, but I think film and games are especially dangerous modes for it. Film because of the wide appeal and generally low media literacy. There's a thread up today about people loving Homelander and not understanding that he's the villain.

For games, I think it's even worse because your role in controlling the actions of the main character multiplies the effect. I certainly don't consider myself a racist colonizer but I enjoyed FC2 and I "pulled the trigger"/"clicked the mouse" to kill hundreds of simulated Africans.

I mean, if the main characters of basically any FPS existed in real life, they'd be monstrous war criminals. I'm not claiming either that virtual violence is real or affecting in the way that real violence is, but there must be some psychological effects of inhabiting the eyes and hands of a killer on a mission for so long. It's not an accident that the biggest FPS franchises are military shooters with US military backing.

So... yeah, I think FC2 tried to do some interesting things narratively with making the player the bad guy. You kill for blood diamonds, you play the forces off each other, you "lose yourself" in the mission and go too far to catch the jackal. But ultimately, its much easier to justify the actions of a fictional character in a way that is self-absolving than to sit with discomfort and self-analyze what FC2 is trying to say about you and the larger world you inhabit.

[-] Sinisterium@hexbear.net 4 points 2 days ago

Sounds like the dude yapped some sophistry for the breadtube audience for two hours?

[-] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 4 points 2 days ago

It's way too high effort for that. He cites specific passages out of HoD and links them to FC2 and contextualizes it in colonial, neocolonial and postcolonial categories pretty correctly....except he seems to work backwards here.

I'll not reurgitate beforementioned points, but here's the basic problem that keeps popping up again and again:

At some point he talks about Far Cry 2s depiction of the african wilderness as a dangerous land, like in HoD, that gives the nature itself an agency that destroys people like Kurtz. You know, savage untameable land that breaks people and that's why the continent is always in some kind of war, ignoring material conditions and the role of colonialism. It's good analysis, he cites where he got it from and all but there's one major problem: The enviroment in Far Cry 2 contains 0 natural dangers. Nothing in it can harm you except falling off a cliff or drowning, neither of which strike me as specifically african nature dangers.

[-] codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 days ago

That's a funny claim to make, especially since rampant (man made) wildfires are the only real non-bullet dangers. FC3 is much more hostile in nature with it's random cassowary attacks!

If anything, Africa in FC2 seems very beautiful and peaceful except for all the military checkpoints. Which, I mean, does raise a different critique about FC2's depiction of Africa and Africans. Like, there's one itty bittty city, and most of the other rare permanent structures are surrounded by shacks and corrugated metal buildings. It makes it seem like the whole country (maybe the whole of Africa even) is a big savanna dotted with occasional shantytown ghettos.

[-] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 3 days ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[-] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Far Cry 2 takes place in Africa.

I was young when I played it, and I barely remember the story beyond arms dealers and mercenaries and warlords all fighting for control, but I think its safe to say that they don't handle any thematic elements with any grace, and even less so for politics.

But! The fire propagation was really fuckin cool.

[-] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 9 points 3 days ago

I think the worst thing you can say about Far Cry 2s politics is that it omits materialism in how the country you're in got like that but even then I'd argue that's kind of the point

[-] Redcuban1959@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago

Far Cry 1 is about mutants, Far Cry 2 is about africa

this post was submitted on 29 May 2025
102 points (100.0% liked)

games

20910 readers
132 users here now

Tabletop, DnD, board games, and minecraft. Also Animal Crossing.

Rules

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS