This is one of many reasons the perfect eye argument by creationists is utter bullshit.
Ugh that drives me crazy. The human eye is a perfect example of observable evolution. Organisms exist with every stage of eye development, from a photosensitive spot to a more advanced convergent evolution of our eye. And the human eye is poorly designed for it's current use, resulting in a significant percentage of people requiring corrective lenses.
most of the dipshit "the eye is to perfect to have evolved" people also have cheap optics on their rifles. something to think about
Youโre just jealous of GWOT surplus carry handle mounted AR optics because they remind you how evolution didnโt grace you with eyestalks ๐
I wish i had eye stalks.
It's a good example of evolving towards a local maximum then being unable to travel through a valley to a more optimal design. As such it confirms exactly what evolutionary theory would predict, and not what "intelligent design by an omniscient creator" would predict.
Clearly this means Godโs chosen are the cephalopods.
๐งโ๐๐ซ๐ Always have been.
๐งโ๐๐ซ๐ซ๐ซ๐ซ๐ซ๐ซ๐ซ๐ซ๐
Always have been.
In the lore of Lord of the Rings, it is said that the supreme being of that universe personally created both men and elves and since men were his favorite creations, he gave them the gift of... having pretty short lives (wow, thanks). Well, octopuses have a much shorter lifespan than us, so if our universe's creator is anything like the Middle Earth's then there's a good chance they are his favorites.
It's been a while, so correct me if I'm wrong; but isn't the gift moving on to something else after a mortal life? If I recall correctly, elves are stuck in the physical world forever. Even when they die don't they just go to some limnal place for a while then come back?
Essentially, yeah.
Elvesโ spirits either linger in Middle Earth or go to the Halls of Mandos in Aman. After some period of time, they can be re-embodied if they choose.
The souls of men did not linger, they were called to the Halls of Mandos upon death. Their souls would stay for a while in Mandos, separate from the elves, until they departed the Halls to only Eru knows where.
until they departed the Halls to only Eru knows where.
Isekai followup when?
As someone with chronic back pain, eyes are the least of my issues with creationists theories
Yeah, my eyes are so perfect, I read that as 'cartoonists' and spent a good few minutes confused.
This arrangement actually optimizes color vision in the daytime and night vision at night. Evolution selected for the correct arrangement for those of us living on land:
https://theconversation.com/look-your-eyes-are-wired-backwards-heres-why-38319
This is just saying that the glial cells help make this less bad than it could be, no? Nothing about why neurons behind receptors would be worse
Because of this we have blind spots, one for each eye. They are not usually noticeable because 1) the blind spot of one eye can usually be seen by the other, and 2) the brain fills in the gap.
So with this I will perform a magic trick, I will make your thumb disappear: Close your left eye and with your right look at a spot in the background, make a thumbs up gesture and place the tip of your thumb on that spot, move your thumb to the the right continuing to look at the spot in the background, when your thumb moves about 15 cm your thumb should disappear.
You can use your left eye too, just switch the directions.
It's way too late at night for all those directions, somehow ended up creating my own blind spot by sticking my thumb in my bum.
Well, I guess your thumb disappeared.
I can try another way the blind spot is about 15 cm at arms length to the right of the right eyes center of vision. So put your thumb there and it should disappear
the brain fills in the gap
To expand on this, current leading theory (predictive processing) says that brain first generates a visual image then confirms it with inputs and if there's no input to confirm/deny the halucination it's just accepted as is. So we can have a whole load of blind spots in all of our sensors and continue functioning rather well with an ocassional artifact.
I think about this at night when my eyes are forced to attempt to make sense of the low light levels in a dark room. I know my room isn't grainy and grey-scale - that's just the best my eyes and brain can do at night. It's interesting to look around and try to imagine the proper colors and shapes of things, reckoning the difference between what I know and what I see in the moment.
With our brains constantly making things up to explain gaps in information, it's no wonder kids think they see "monsters" in the dark. It's also no wonder that nightlights work well to keep said "monsters" away.
โ Discount number of limbs
โ Cheaply made eyeballs
โ Held together with a bunch of inflexible bones
Wait, am I just an off-band octopus?
Damn.
I wonder if that afforded some level of protection to the surface dwellers' receptors when in direct contact with high levels of sunlight.
I am biology illiterate. Explanation please.
Cephalopod precursors evolved eyes and then brains developed from the eye so their eye is structured correctly.
Vertebrate precursors evolved the brian first and the eye evolved out the brain as a sensory stub. So it's upside down and inside out like in picture.
The nerve cluster goes through the back of the eye splits and folds back to end in light receptors. Light hase to go through the nerves before hitting the sensor.
There is even a reflective layer after the sensors that gives the sensors a second chance at picking up the light. This is what causes the red eye or green eye you sometimes see in flash photography.
It would require a genetic rebuild to fix this and the intermediate steps evolution usually use would be so disadvantageous they are selected against. So the right combo of mutations to give us a working octopus eye is VERY unlikely to happen.
Hypothetically, if we managed to make a genetically modified human with the eye that you are talking about, what advantages/disadvantages would it have over our current eyes?
No blind spot and probably better light sensitivity. But it's not like we really need higher light sensitivity as land-dwellers.
Octopuses don't have a dead spot in the eyes I guess
Scallops, oysters, mussels and clams have anywhere between 40 and 200 eyes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollusc_eye
convergently evolved eyes, cephalod pod eyes evolved very differently from tetrapods. cephalpod eyes evolved by forming an invagination of those tissues. whereas the tetrapods evolved as extensions of thier brain.
plus cephalopods eyes are more like a camera, the lens move back and forth, instead of changing shapes. they do have exceptions which allows them to simulate eyes of tetrapods. they also possess the ability to regenerate thier eyes too.
Shit just evolves. It doesn't evolve correctly or incorrectly.
Evolution likes local maxima. Getting out of them is difficult. That's what the OOP meant with "evolution was powerless to correct it".
Getting out of local maxima means you first have to go with a worse setup until you get to a new, better local maxima. That's why evolution doesn't really do that all that often and instead prefers small optimizations.
(I use "like" and "prefer" not to say that evolution has goals or emotions, but to say that that's what the "algorithm" of evolution leads to.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_eye
(At a glance, this article needs some touching up and hasn't been meaningfully contributed to in some years.)
Quick way to find your blindspot:
Close your right eye
Hold your phone/monitor 1ft (30cm) away from your face
Look at the 'x' below with your left eye
Slowly bring your phone towards you (or your face towards the monitor) until the '.' disappears
. x
Well
It doesnt
Your username says you're an owl, but you're suspiciously squid shaped
Do I understand correctly that our ancestors had left the water before this upgrade dropped for fish?
I don't think you understand correctly. The cephalopod eye and the fish eye (which includes tetrapods) evolved independently.
I've said it for years, as soon as it's commercially available I'm getting photoreceptors realignment surgery.
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