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How possibly? (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by Chippys_mittens@lemmy.world to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
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[-] ShrimpCurler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 2 months ago

Sometimes it feels like the term male privilege is just a way to tell men to suck it up, don't cry, keep your feelings bottle up on the inside. Meanwhile, hypocritically being against toxic masculinity.

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[-] Wataba@sh.itjust.works 24 points 2 months ago

We don't need ragebait in this world.

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[-] SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip 15 points 2 months ago

I hate the word "privilege" used in this context. Words have connotations, and "privilege" conjures up images of playing polo at the country club with the upper crust of one's community, then going back to the office to work as executive vice president of the company your father founded. Yet, the people concerned about social justice seem unreasonably attached to their particular jargon, even if it gets in the way of communication. Over the past 15 years or so, I've seen a handful of people get it when it's explained to them as, "imagine you grew up hardscrabble dirt poor, but also had to deal with racism." But mostly, the online discussions devolve into a fight over the definition of the word privilege. C'mon, let's just ditch the word, ferchrissakes! Keep the concept, call it something more relatable!

Same with "toxic masculinity." Yes, I get it, the "toxic" adjective is a modifier to talk about a particular type of masculinity, but the people who hear it as "masculinity is toxic" have a point, too. People use adjectives as intensifiers. I guarantee that the people talking about "evil homosexuals" aren't adding "evil" to distinguish from the good ones.

[-] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Whatever term you come up with, conservative think tanks will immediately poison. Trying to twist yourself in knots to find the perfect way to express the idea is just failing to understand that the issue is that those who benefit from these systems at the highest levels have every incentive to keep things as they are. They can and will use their captive audience to fuck with any explanation you try to give that's contrary to the system as it exists today. The only concessions they will give will only be to get enough people to pack it in since "we won". And those will only be temporary.

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 9 points 2 months ago

fight over the definition of the word privilege. C'mon, let's just ditch the word, ferchrissakes! Keep the concept, call it something more relatable!

I think it's naive to believe whatever terminology you use as an alternative wouldn't eventually end up with the same stigma.

The people who interpret it as "masculinity is toxic" aren't doing it because they have a hearing disability, they interpret it that way as a means to justify their own beliefs.

The same goes for your example of "evil homosexuals". Anyone who is blaming all homosexuals for something does not have to modify them with the term evil for you to know they are being a bigot.

I don't think it's people fighting for social justice who get unreasonably attached to words. I think that describes the people who feign an inability to utilize context or reason when they hear them.

[-] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Yeah there's no magic word choices that make good communicating automatic or guaranteed.

Bad faith pretends otherwise, for cover.

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[-] eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 months ago

Fact is that as white people in North America, we DO get privileged treatment from the banking system, law enforcement, shopkeepers, bus drivers, random people in the street...

And white people in North America have it their whole lives, and will continue to have it their whole lives for the most part.

Is it unpleasant to be reminded that you'll spend your whole life playing with the White Assist mode, and that every single non white person knows that about you? Yeah.

That there are circles you won't be let into by default because of actions taken by other people? Yeah.

White supremacist ideology is bad for everyone, including white people, but it's bad for white people in an emotional health way, while it's bad for non white people in a life and death way.

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[-] usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I also hate the term privilege because it implies those people have something they shouldn't have, i.e. they need to be brought down, when really it's that other people have a disadvantage. This makes the ones labeled privileged defensive because it seems like an attack instead of a call for help.

Everyone should be at least at the same level as the "privileged" ones.

Edit: it seems I might not have been clear as the discussion below seems to perfectly encapsulate why I personally dislike the term privilege because of how it frames things. The majority of privileged people aren't getting a leg up, they just don't have the things dragging them down that underprivileged people do. Maybe an analogy will help:

Imagine a grueling and difficult race everyone is forced to run. The actual distance is arbitrary and doesn't matter, you just need to complete it. The starting line is a staggered mess with people starting forward and backwards from each other to varying degrees. Many of the people in the race rightly point out this is not fair and want the starting lines to at least be the same for everyone. Now, which do you think is more beneficial to having everyone agree/work to move the starting positions; saying the people in front need to move back, or that the people further back should be moved forward?

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[-] bizarroland@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I personally don't like the idea of the phrase toxic masculinity because I don't believe that the masculine energy is toxic in and of itself. I feel like a more appropriate term would be pseudo masculinity. Because that implies that people are not naturally this way, but they are forcing themselves to act this way in pursuit of some perceived ideal of masculinity.

I mean, humans are frequently guilty of using terms that mean a very specific thing in a much broader sense as a shorthand for clearly communicating what we specifically mean in that instance.

For instance, I have heard people are use the phrase "toxic masculinity" to describe boyfriends that don't want to do the dishes, when the actual correct term is "lazy piece of shit", but for some reason, when communicating this information to other people, it is easier for them to ascribe an issue with the sex of the person than an issue with the choices of the person, implying that the only actual fix is to repair your emotional relationship with your own sex instead of accepting that everyone has a human responsibility to contribute to doing the chores around the house.

Once again, I reiterate that masculinity and masculine energy is not toxic, any more than femininity and feminine energy is toxic, and I also exhort anyone that took the time to read this much to do their best to effectively and accurately communicate using specific language rather than emotional shorthand.

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[-] nightofmichelinstars@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

I'm not married to those terms, but I've never heard anyone suggest better ones for what they mean. These concepts must be communicated somehow. Got any ideas?

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[-] Godric@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago
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[-] fartographer@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

As a white guy, I have the kind of privilege that allows me enough space to realize that I'm sad. Hell, I could probably just walk up to a cop and tell them I'm sad, and they'd offer me some horrible, but well-meaning advice.

But when I mention my Judaism, something interesting might happen. Especially if I told them that my Zionist family lives in Israel. But the real excitement will start when I say "free Palestine."

But the saddest part of all is that I could say nothing, and just be white, and no one will give a fuck. It's mostly sad because I'm incapable of saying nothing.

[-] percent@infosec.pub 2 points 2 months ago

I'm pretty sure every cop that I've ever met (in the US, anyway) would be indifferent to anything in that second paragraph. It would be such a wildly uninteresting encounter for most of them, they'd forget about it by the end of their shift.

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[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

White guys make up a large chunk of the population. There are white guys that have some of the same problems that are harming minorities as well. Poverty, addiction, mental and physical health, inflation, an unfavorable jobs market, and so on.

They see a democratic party that is at best useless at addressing these problems, when they admit that they exist at all. At worst, they see a party that is dismissive and hostile to these concerns, and to them personally. In contrast, they see a republican party that is full of welcoming con artists who will happily tell them that all their problems spring from minorities.

Neither side is offering actual solutions, but republicans are acknowledging that the problems exist, even if they're offering false solutions.

So white guys keep falling for con artists. No one else is offering them anything.

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[-] garbage_world@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago
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[-] FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 months ago

Being sad that black people are in movies isn't oppression

[-] fartographer@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

But what if I'm stupid or racist? Or both?

[-] TerdFerguson@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Is it even possible to be racist and not to be stupid? I understand the concept, but in practice it always seems like a package deal.

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[-] vga@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

What a great template, not controversial at all.

"How can capitalism be good if sometimes I'm poor?"

"How can I be free to express my identity if sometimes somebody is mean?"

"How can turn tables if tables turn me at on tables me?"

[-] Chippys_mittens@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

My posts usually get lots of upvotes and engagement. Figured I'd fuck with the average ratio today

[-] saltesc@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Literally what shitposting is, by definition.

And you've done it once gain, Maestro. Well done.

Swear the followers of lemmyshitpost don't know what a shitpost is. Like, at all. Ironically makes it the most freshest of places to do it.

[-] sanbdra@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Two things can exist at once—life’s not that simple.

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[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Why I left the left? I used to be a radical leftist, who believed in radical ideas like and , but then I went through and also got falsely accused of rape after having sex with a drunken woman, so I became a moderate christian conservative who believes in , , and <literal nazi thing, but "extermination" is replaced with "removal from society">.

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Expressing what happens when libs go mad, as mad libs.

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[-] MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

That applies to white women as well

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[-] Triumph@fedia.io 2 points 2 months ago

I've never said or thought this.

[-] Botanicals@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Are you the only white man on this planet?

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this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2026
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