1019
kids are gowing up faster and faster (mander.xyz)
submitted 6 months ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/science_memes@mander.xyz
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[-] root_beer@midwest.social 39 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Give it a few years, they’ll be picking it up in middle school at least

My daughter has been scoring very high in math this year in fifth grade so they wanted to give her more advanced stuff to do, like moving into basic statistics. She isn’t having any of it though, she hates math and gets terrible anxiety from it. She just wants to sculpt and make puppets instead. Can’t say I blame her, I was the same way.

…yet I’d cherish a job where I’d just spend all day futzing around in R

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 22 points 6 months ago

I always got straight A in maths in high school but never like it, when graduate went to film school and after a couple of years working on TV and films I got tired of the bad pay, the job insecurity and the constant need of networking to catch projects. So I decided to look inside into coming back to college not for something I liked but for something I'm good at, and got myself a degree in actuarial sciences. I miss being able to smoke weed while on the job, but the pay is way better, there's always a job lined up if I get tired of my job and at the end, I learned to enjoy maths and to solve problems.

Maybe if you show her all the beautiful mathematic graphics and functional 3d models, you can show her that she cN learn to love something that she's naturally good at.

[-] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 months ago

R is great for visualizations and also has some neat tools for building websites, interactive figures/maps, web apps, and stuff like that. So a lot of sculpting potential in R, if she manages to get into it far enough.

[-] Tagger@lemmy.world 33 points 6 months ago

Eli5?

[-] darthsid@lemmy.world 78 points 6 months ago

R is a complicated statistics programming language usually used by people in undergraduate and post graduate STEM degrees.

[-] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 6 months ago

I have been IT support for medical researchers and that application is a BEAST. Installing and configuring it can be a nightmare. Especially when the researchers aren't proficient in it already. Watching someone who is good at it is like watching the pinball wizard.

[-] doctordevice@lemmy.ca 8 points 6 months ago

What's nightmarish about the installation? Is it because medical stuff is still on like Win XP?

Installing on more modern Windows systems is pretty simple. Install the R distro from CRAN + almost certainly RStudio from Posit. Should be pretty plug-and-play. Not nearly as fiddly as LaTeX installs are.

[-] tool@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

What's nightmarish about the installation? Is it because medical stuff is still on like Win XP?

Anything more than the most basic bare-bones install of Workbench (formerly Rstudio) quickly turns nightmarish. Try setting it up on a Linux dedicated server with AD auth with auto-mounting of network shares per-user. Posit's documentation isn't great (or even agrees with itself across pages) even in the simplest best-case scenario, and if you deploy anything that's even slightly complicated, it turns into a Hellscape. There's a good chance you will end up on one of the Posit employees' blog to read an incomplete explanation of setting up a feature because it's entirely missing or incomplete in the documentation. This isn't some crazy off-the-wall edge scenario either, it's an (allegedly) supported configuration and would be a typical deployment scenario in a multi-user R environment.

Their support is absolute shit too, it's truly fucking atrocious. First-level support will not solve your issue, I promise you that, and you won't get anyone who actually knows WTF they're talking about until you're escalated at least twice. And even then, they are very much up their own ass and have a VERY snobby attitude about the product, and always assume that it's the user at fault, even when you provide absolute 100% proof that it's their product at fault. It obviously couldn't possibly be their Super Precious Perfect-in-Every-Way Golden God Product, because as we've previously established before, it is a Perfect Product Which Does No Wrong, Ever. They also love to try and shirk responsibility and say that X is not a supported configuration for literally everything, and then claim that the documentation must be wrong when you point out in their documentation that it is.

Don't even get me started on the Lovecraftian nightmare that is R package management. It's even worse than the essay I just typed out, and they want to charge you essentially the entire Workbench license cost x2 to make it usable. Their logging is useless too, it has basically two settings, one of which is essentially "nothing," and the other is "firehose of bullshit that you need to follow along in their source code to try to find anything useful." That's not an exaggeration, I actually had to do that to diagnose an issue and provide proof to them that yeah, it is your half-assed shit product that's the problem.

So yeah, if you're not just Click-Click-Click-Next installing it, it very quickly becomes nightmarish. Posit desperately needs competition in the space, because they're absolute shit, but they can be absolute shit with impunity since they don't have any real competition.

[-] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 6 months ago

Can confirm, it's not just you. I had no problem with it in college and my first job because I had full access to my system. My latest two jobs, though, fucking hell is it a pain in my ass, especially since I'm not required to use it but am doing so voluntarily to up the quality of our data analysis (it used to be terrible descriptive statistics and incorrectly performed Excel t tests). So IT doesn't want to even touch it yet I need their constant password pasting to make it go.

I just bring my own laptop when I need to do stats to things.

[-] tool@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

My condolences. And as much as I hate Posit/Workbench, some of that is on your IT department. If I'm reading your comment correctly, you're having issues because it needs admin privileges to update some things, namely packages. That's honestly a very simple fix, they just need to grant your user NTFS write permissions to the Rstudio/Workbench install directory locally (and maybe some registry keys, but that's not definite). That's it. It's a 10-second permanent fix and no more UAC prompts for you.

[-] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately, due to the nature of my business, my access to sensitive information, and the mind blowing incompetence of whoever wrote our IT security policies, they won't do so. My PC is locked down tight to keep sensitive data from wandering off... Except for how I can connect my phone (not a USB drive, those are blocked), transfer data to it, analyze it on my PC, and transfer the results back using my phone. That is actually the IT sanctioned workaround. It makes my brain hurt.

[-] doctordevice@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 months ago

I guess I must've saved my IT department some headache when me and my colleagues just asked for RStudio IDE. Everything runs perfectly well, no need for any of the garbage you just described. I literally just need an IDE to write scripts in. I'd say I don't even need the IDE, except I do use rstudioapi::getActiveDocumentContext()$path to set the working directory and work with relative paths. Plus I just like it, barebones as it is (and dark mode).

Sorry for the nightmare you clearly had to go through. :(

[-] merari42@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

How is Pak better than pacman, which is my preferred package management solution for R.

[-] doctordevice@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 months ago

Idk, that was someone else's comment. I just install.packages() and library().

[-] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 6 months ago

I'll admit it's been awhile but about 10 years ago, it could be a thing. One guy needed almost a week of hands on to get it right.

[-] bobburger@fedia.io 4 points 6 months ago

I've almost entirely switched to using pak for managing my R packages. I'm not 100% sure what the magic is in pak, but it's really made my life easier when installing packages.

[-] doctordevice@lemmy.ca 9 points 6 months ago

I barely even write base R anymore, I mostly use it for data wrangling these days so my code is almost entirely tidyverse. Every once in a while I get to bust out some statistics, but rarely.

[-] blackbirdbiryani@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

I'm a tidyverse zealot and I just cannot stand fixing people's 300 line base R spaghetti that can easily be refactored into 10 lines of dplyr. Especially annoying when researchers can't move away from doing everything in matrix format (when it's unnecessary).

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 5 points 6 months ago

I use python as my main programming language, I'm doing an MBA in actuarial sciences and all my professors use R, so all the classes and exercises are in R. They are kind enough to accept my exercises and exams in python, but I spent half my time translating R functions to python. This pass week I found the first function that doesn't exists in python and had to learn how to run R code inside python. Just the cell of that function took 6hs processing, because of the back and forth between python to R to python again.

[-] bobburger@fedia.io 4 points 6 months ago

I'm not sure if you're using Quarto or not, but use it almost daily and frequently write R and Python in the same file without any noticeable overhead.

[-] darthsid@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

See everyone I know who uses R ends up at that point when there’s just no way around learning it and using it 😂

[-] sparkle@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

... complicated? it's a pretty easy language in comparison to others, it's simple to use (although it can be quite terse)

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 4 points 6 months ago

For the untrained eye can look complicated because it had a pretty unorthodox syntaxes, like <- to variable assign, c() to create a vector, df$column... and other little R specific things that are not common on other languages.

[-] klemptor@startrek.website 3 points 6 months ago

R is made infinitely better with tidyverse.

[-] Tagger@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

Thank you very much

[-] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 30 points 6 months ago

Last week he learnt C

[-] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 26 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

What exactly does R mean outside kindergarten?

[-] Dave@lemmy.nz 63 points 6 months ago

It's a programming language used primarily in data analysis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(programming_language)

[-] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

OIC ok

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

The (or 'A') new killer language, ir so I have heard.

It neatly brings together a lot of optimisations (like template metaprogramming in C++ which brings optimisation and compiletime checks together, but is maniacly difficult to use In C++ IMO.) and seems easy to use after a quick check.

We'll see, primary logic usually doesn't prevail in those matters.

[-] Dave@lemmy.nz 6 points 6 months ago

It's 30 years old so I'm not sure you could call it new 😆

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

Ouch 🤕😁

[-] boo_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 6 months ago

Also, it's the GNU version of the 'S' language (kind of like Octave vis-à-vis MATLAB). They only say they're largely compatible, as they ofc don't own S/MATLAB, but it's pretty much the same AFAIK, only that R is now much more popular than S.

[-] ferristriangle@hexbear.net 17 points 6 months ago

What else would learning R mean? The programming language?

[-] MarxGuns@hexbear.net 10 points 6 months ago

Being science memes, yeah, it'd be the R programming language. I thought it was something bad at first.

[-] SpeakerToLampposts@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

"Sesame Street was brought to you today by the language R, and the number F."

[-] Zerush@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 months ago

BJ Killjoy

this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
1019 points (98.3% liked)

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