296
"And other parts" on a fighter jet feels a bit like "and other ingredients" on your food/medicine label.
"Don't worry, we made this baby as cheaply as possible! It's got Cessna engines! It's got...lots of other parts in there!"
"Contains no more than 20% bulk jet meal"
Ok I'll clarify the title to other Cessna parts.
I think the title is great. I'm just being intentionally obtuse. I understand it's not truly a mish-mash of parts, that's just how I initially read it. It's a cool jet!
Well, it would be weird if they used parts from other aircraft manufacturers.
"100% made of Cessna concentrate"
TIL Cessna made jet engines.
Ive only ever associated them with props.
Cessna citation is a very successful line of business jets
Citation needed
Cessna[1]
Ikr
Mad props to them.
.... I'm sorry, I'll show myself out.
Well the jet engines themselves are from Honeywell, but it's the one they use in their business jets.
Honeywell, the the same company that made my desk fan?
Honeywell Aerospace employee here. If you've ever flown with any major airline, there's a very high chance the plane you were on had one of our auxiliary power units, which is basically a smaller turbine engine that starts the main engines and powers the electronics. We also make Christmas trees!
I will always think fondly of Honeywell because they assisted Kubrick and his production designers create plausible computer technology for 2001: A Space Odyssey based on what they understood in 1968.
Those must be some expensive Christmas trees.
A turbojet is just a desk fan with extra steps
And fired equipment safety systems. And thermostats. And industrial control systems. And toasters. I’m never surprised when someone says Honeywell makes x.
And my thermostat?
And my sword!
no, Honeywell, the same company that makes hand scanners
They even have a turboprop, which is a jet engine with a propeller!
It looks like the Scorpion was not selected by the USAF for the light-strike or patrolling craft role, in favor of pursuing turboprop options (Beechcraft AT-6 Wolverine and Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano).
Reading more of this, the Beechcraft may be used for basic training, then the T7 for advanced training. The Scorpion would have been smack in the middle, doing neither as well, and probably not worth it.
Sounds like they want to armed version of the T7. So everything armed.
And rightfully so. They are straight up better options.
And if I read the literature correctly, the craft actually selected was the OA-1K Sky Warden, the airframe based on the agricultural aircraft designs of Air Tractor AT-802.
They were going with the Super Tuscano. I don't know what happened. But somewhere in there they also decided to order 75 of them instead of something like half that number.
Super Tuscano
🤌
I think US military operations moved away from counter-insurgency to preparedness with conflicts with mechanized military forces that have actual air power, so a low-and-slow airframe wasn't considered as necessary. That, and drones are filling a lot of the air coverage and surveillance gap (though no one on the ground will tell you there could ever be a complete replacement for the BRRRRRRRR of an A-10.)
I would think the same thing but the order for 75 is the Sky Warden. An armed Air Tractor. Which doesn't make sense to me.
The problem with replacing the A-10 is the lack of wing space for hard points. Everyone thinks about the gun but the real thing the A-10 brought was 11 hard points and a 7600kg weight budget for them. That means 30 500 pound guided munitions. And hours to use them.
The F 35 in beast mode carries around half the hard points but the same weight, and the strike eagle carries around 2/3rds. So the question becomes about economy. This plane carries half the hard points and half the weight.
So the question becomes economics. In a world of F-35s and Strike Eagles is it cheaper to keep them grounded and source, train, maintain, and fly the scorpion. The answer is no. In fact the 2 main arguments for keeping the A-10 for the last 40 years have been, we already have them, and they are the best aircraft for the job. We're not going to buy another unless it is also the best plane for the job.
All good points. I just want to add that the issue with the f35 afaik is the long down time for every hour of flight, and cost per hour. That could be overcome with cheaper planes. But like you say, is it really worth a whole new manned system.
As I understand it, the Armed Overwatch pick that would at least sometimes replace the A-10 for close air support is the OA-1K Sky Warden, which has 10 hard points, and a 7,257kg gross weight. I don't know how to accurately calculate the Sky Warden's weight budget, but it's a little more than half of the gross weight of the A-10, so I'd guess it's roughly half, or 3,500kg or so. Which is definitely a step down in terms of weight and ability, but I guess the hope is that it will be cheaper to fly and maintain, particularly since it's based off the long-running Air Tractor AT-802 airframe. I think the other two planes in consideration, the EMB-314 Super Tucano and the AT-6B Wolverine, have fewer hard points (5 each) and lower maximum take-off weights (5,400kg and 2,948kg, respectively).
It'll be somewhere in the 3,000ish kg between it's dry weight and it's max take off weight. Also of note to my earlier bit SOCOM got this money directly and will control these planes directly. And the GAO is not happy about it. Especially that SOCOM ordered 75 of them, which is enough to put 10 in each region. Basically they don't want to have to ferry them around, even though that's part of their selling point. However I think GAO has the same question I do. What is wrong with the MQ-9 and eight hellfire missiles? What is SOCOM thinking they're getting into that they need more than the 300 MQ-9 Predators already available largely just to them?
If I had to take a guess the Sky Warden's ordnance carry isn't even that much higher than the MQ-9, about 900 kg or 2,000 pounds more. (Max minus dry weight, fuel, and 10 percent for other equipment, less if you want to use drop tanks)
Looks like a plane to me.
Disgusting. I would never park one in my driveway. What would the neighbors think??
At front I get the feeling of a woman with huge ass bolted on titties. Behind looks slim and appealing.
Would.
I actually like it a lot ngl.
From the side it looks like the bastard son of a Frogfoot, the backside looks like they stole the tail rudders from an F-18 and strapped them on something F-14 adjacent.
The front is very A-10, just with the engines in a different orientation.
"They hope it will replace the A-10"
Aaaahahahahaha "Lets give it no BBBRRRRRRRPPP, a low service ceiling, use the engines as shielding / flak generators for the pilots, and hope to sell it as an A-10!
Well afaik Brrrrrrp is giving way to precision missiles.
The big advantage of brrrp is simplicity. Pull trigger, things go asplodsy and/or turn into pink mist. Close air support, which the 'hog kicked ass at in the sandbox, needs to be reliable and simple. With the proliferation of GPS jamming technologies and other countermeasures, simple and cheap should carry the day.
I don't know if anything is as physically survivable as the A-10. Certainly not some modern composite that will be grounded for fractures after taking small arms fire. Also, the boots on the ground love the support provided by the A-10, as do the congress critters whose bases are in their districts.
Just rambling thoughts from a village idiot, not looking to start a fight
Yeah but that requires you to be super close. Missile you can fire from far away.
that's the best part, the brrrt never really worked well.
what boggles the mind is why people think cheap is good when it's about war, when we have seen time and time again that cheap and simple gets dominated by advanced but more expensive.
this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
296 points (99.3% liked)
Today I Learned
17669 readers
344 users here now
What did you learn today? Share it with us!
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS