What's up with that? : memes

[-] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 133 points 3 weeks ago

Aside from the fact that they are listening to propaganda, it's also a matter of framing. They think of solar as green weenie shit, the ineffectual limp dick replacement for tried and true all American machine power.

It all starts sounding different when you frame it as a security issue. Large scale solar will keep working through almost anything, even if parts of it are damaged. Most other forms of power need constant maintenance and can suffer catastrophic failure that renders the whole thing inoperable and costing a fortune to replace.

More importantly, it adds flexibility since it can be rapidly deployed and remains effective at smaller scales. The military wants solar because the alternative is often a gas generator that needs fuel shipped in by truck, a common target for attack. If your house has a solar roof and battery backup, a blackout isn't going to effect you. Power can be out for weeks and you'll barely notice, while previously the only option was a gas generator that only powers a few circuits in your house and is inevitably going to run out of fuel.

The more widespread solar and battery gets, the more secure we are as a civilization against large scale catastrophes that disrupt the grid, whether that's war, sabotage or natural disasters.

[-] HeckGazer@programming.dev 36 points 3 weeks ago

That's a great way of putting it.

We've had fewer power outages at our new offgrid house (0) than we had living anywhere else

[-] ealoe@ani.social 33 points 3 weeks ago

Best way I've seen to explain solar power and EVs to a right winger is tell them I don't have to fill my car with expensive Saudi oil, I make good clean American electricity when the sun hits my roof and I use it to drive around. If oil was worthless because we have better forms of power, we could stop caring what some Arab princes think we should be paying to drive to work.

[-] vithigar@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 weeks ago

You can appeal to self-sustaing types or prepper logic as well. Way easier to make your own electricity then it is to extract and refine your own oil. EVs will remain operational much longer after societal collapse then gas powered vehicles will.

[-] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

Electric motors also require far less maintenance and have far fewer ways they can break down. Oh, and if you live in a cold climate, you can warm it up in the garage without killing yourself.

And actually, if we reach a point where a solar roof and battery are the norm, and basically every vehicle on the road is an EV, civilization collapse becomes that much more unlikely. There's no longer a domino effect of the grid going down, pumps and refineries stopping, supply chains collapsing, and technology ceasing to function. Disruptions would be far more localized and their impact would be drastically reduced.

[-] Smorty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago

Isn't that one of the things many Americans want? To be self-sustaining and to not rely on others for their energy? Or am I getting this wrong? (silly european here)

A good friend of mine uses very little energy (just a smol fridge, a router, a smol TV and a phone charger) and he can actually get by easily with his solar panels up top and some batteries he got.

He barely has to purchase any energy anymore, sometimes even in winter.

[-] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

Which is another security thing, I just didn't include it because I was typing on my phone and running out of time. But yes, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela, and all the other OPEC countries that your conservative uncle likely has a long history of not liking will lose influence if their oil revenues plummet.

Also, gas goes bad and it can easily become contaminated by something as simple as moisture building up, after which it will damage engines if used. Not to mention that dangers of fire or leaks. The sun won't hit its expiration date for a few billion years, and for the most part the worst thing that can happen with solar is that efficiency goes down slightly if the panel needs cleaning.

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 23 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

the ineffectual limp dick replacement for tried and true all American machine power.

the fossil lobby has done a fantastic job of deceiving people about the superiority renewables bring to the generation problem. the fact that they still roll out bullshit like "you won't be able to watch TV at night" tells you everything.

Meanwhile, in REALITY, the US has installed record amounts of renewables and battery storage.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/us-battery-energy-storage-deployments-jump/729248/

[-] Shard@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago

The real tragedy here is that the educational standards have been allowed to drop so far that "can't watch TV at night" is a legitimate issue with solar to some people.

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

While you're not wrong in the educational standards, I think a lot of this, in 2024, is obvious, no shit sherlock 'revelations', and the FUD should be combatted on every front - eliminating foreign oil influence, superior quality of life all over, rebuilding the grid, doing FUCKING ANYTHING about realistically reacting to climate change etc..

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 weeks ago

In 2024 USA, there is no such thing as,

no shit sherlock 'revelations'

There is no common sense anymore.

[-] Smorty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago

oh nooo no trash TV past 8 PM? What am I gonna do? Do something interesting? pfffff! Yeah right, as if

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 3 weeks ago

I'm fucking tired of treating these idiots with kid gloves. They have no curiosity and refuse to understand how it works? Good luck fixing that.

[-] Zomg@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

Oh the subject, EVs... Now you have a mobile energy bank that you can take with you and store/use that energy in emergencies.

[-] Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 weeks ago

Don't forget that big turbines can provide inertia into the power network, allowing large power spikes to occur without forcing equipment offline, that can be solved with hydro, flywheel batteries, windmills etc

[-] psud@aussie.zone 2 points 3 weeks ago

Don't forget that big batteries can react in fractions of a second to large power demand spikes or dips, stabilising the grid far better than spinning steel can

[-] bzarb8ni@lemm.ee 59 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I honestly think it's egotistical dipshits who can't admit to being wrong about "there's no such thing as climate change" they've been going on and on about, for decades.

Only now they really can't deny it, so it's this little nit-picking of everything that still lets them say "see, I'm still so smart about this stuff, and smart me thinks we still shouldn't do anything about climate change".

Gonna get us all killed.

[-] hsr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 37 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

nit-picking of everything that still lets them say “see, I’m still so smart about this stuff"

Ah, the famous Jordan Peterson gambit:

Present a problem in great detail.
Explain how this problem is just how things must be, and obviously the only way forward is to roll over and maintain status quo.
If anyone proposes a solution they're a silly liberal who doesn't understand the complexity of the problem.

[-] bzarb8ni@lemm.ee 14 points 3 weeks ago

Lol, that's bang on! Well done.

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

If anyone proposes a solution they’re a silly liberal who doesn’t understand the complexity of the problem.

I find it hilarious that there's a debate going on about climate scientists' objectivity when the other side IS LITERALLY THE PETROL LOBBY, and we have decades of data showing how their industry has destroyed the ecosystem.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/25/we-have-emotions-too-climate-scientists-respond-to-attacks-on-objectivity

And I'd suggest people consider: when shit gets really bad, there's going to be backlash - people crying out "why didn't the scientists save us, why didn't they stop things if they're so smart" and all science will have is decades of warnings going back to the 80s.

meanwhile - the fucks on the right side of OP's image will be the ones leading the torch wielding mobs, probably saying it's a conspiracy by the scientists to profit off the world's end. which is what the petrol lobby has done.

[-] hsr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 weeks ago

Farmers' protests against the European Green Deal has to be one of the most mind-boggling movements I've witnessed. It's exactly as you say: by 2050 farmers will be asking for even bigger handouts because their crops failed, while also crying about how EU didn't stop global warming. Literal children protesting because EU put greens on their plate.

[-] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago

Oh they cans till deny it. I have a co-worker who isn't really a conspiracy theorist, but last year when it snowed ONCE, he went: pff, where is that climate change now?

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 3 weeks ago

Mfer do you think burnt coal or a coal powerplant can be recycled?

[-] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago

I always think the same when people say that wind turbines need maintenance and sometimes break down. Cool, a coal powerplant you only have to build and feed with coal forever.

[-] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 2 points 3 weeks ago

Coal is made of carbon which is 6 proton, 6 neutrons, 6 elections. They are literally spreading hell mass that to no surprise is heating the world to be like hell. We need more trees to cast carbon back to the earth! We need to use the power from the pure light given to us by our God. Praise the Sun!

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 3 weeks ago

The sad thing is that arguments like this are actually more likely to get through to these people than actual, logical and/or scientific arguments.

[-] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 2 points 3 weeks ago

This is the kind rhetoric I'm considering for my future political career. F@#ing sad it's come to this. Same energy as when I tell wife beaters "they are keying their own car". I don't feel women are objects but for the kind of men that do, I think it reaches them.

[-] Zomg@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Or "yeah but we're burning fuel to make energy" without understanding that a large powerplant burning fuel at 60% efficiency (or whatever percent) is better than 1000 small ones (cars) at the same efficiency

[-] psud@aussie.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago

Internal combustion cars are about half as efficient as big fossil fuel powerplants. The big ones waste a third of the energy as low grade heat; cars waste two thirds of the energy as low grade heat

[-] Smorty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

they'll start building environmentally friendly coal mines soon, I can feel it.

(as in, the materials are well sourced but the mines are as usual)

[-] ArtieShaw@fedia.io 20 points 3 weeks ago

I feel like this is missing "Prime Farmland"

[-] Assman@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 weeks ago

We could be massively subsidizing corn instead of generating electricity

[-] pupbiru@aussie.zone 4 points 3 weeks ago

if i could reasonably grow vegetables on my roof i absolutely would

[-] BetaBlake@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

That is the #1 excuse right now

[-] prex@aussie.zone 3 points 3 weeks ago

I keep quoting this article but there are lots of others. Grazing & solar go together quite well.

[-] ArtieShaw@fedia.io 3 points 3 weeks ago

That's a great point. We had a local private solar project that was fenced off and used to graze sheep. The sheep kept the field tidy and had built-in shelter from the sun and rain in warmer months.

It was also part of a farm-to-table project. Unfortunately, that aspect drew the outrage of a neighbor who had ties to PETA. The sheep are gone now and I don't know the details aside from the local media blowup. There may have been more to the story.

I would love it if they used it to graze goats and rented them out to local property owners. My backyard has some weird terrain that makes it a PITA to mow. Goats will even take out poison ivy with no ill effects. I'd pay for that service.

Point being - that land doesn't need to be dedicated to a single use.

[-] Smorty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago

that's a real good one, thanks for sharing! I guess solar panels really are just roofs but with cool energy features

[-] RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com 16 points 3 weeks ago

No cancer? What kind of right wing conspiracy doesn't make you gay, transgenders your kids or gives you cancer?

[-] RiikkaTheIcePrincess@pawb.social 6 points 3 weeks ago

Well, something made me gay and trans >:3 wiggles queerly ^.^

And I did have cancer... 🤔 But all' that happened whilst with my fashy right-wing parents who tried to protect me from all forms of modern medicine and sense. Maybe it's the right whose ideas are crap and are ruining/killing America 💡

[-] RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 3 weeks ago

I hope you're better. I mean regarding the fashy parents and the cancer. The rest doesn't need any fixing 💕

[-] ramenshaman@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago

Why is it the uncle that's the one who's generally portrayed as being the crazy conspiracy theorist? I'm an uncle, I'm not that bad

[-] dontgooglefinderscult@lemmings.world 8 points 3 weeks ago

Because usually the guy that can't get laid an start a family is the one that fills their time with weird nonsense, and if he has normal siblings then he becomes an uncle eventually.

This is different from the phenomena wherein intentionally child free uncles get into much more reasonable weird nonsense like magic the gathering or cabinet making.

[-] runner_g@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 weeks ago

Me, a child free by choice uncle, slowly closing the door so you cant see my woodworking space.... And also deleting my YouTube history.

[-] trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

it's not all uncles but when it is someone it's usually an uncle.

One of my uncles was a huge nazi until he got married and now he's chill.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

My uncle is married, but he's married to a crazy and they're both like this.

My father is a mild crazy and knows I can argue longer then he can, so he doesn't start shit.

[-] halykthered@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago

It'll be interesting when the pendulum swings towards EVs in america. Car companies will have to convince those coal and gas chuds to go back on all the rhetoric they've been fed in order to stay relevent in an evolving market.

[-] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago

Luckily these fucking morons have the memory of a goldfish.

[-] halykthered@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago

True, I'm excited to see the flavor next month.

[-] xwolpertinger@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

It is weird how "coal country" seems to hate EVs when they could run them on coal (not that they should, of course). Their natural enemy is clearly oil!

[-] SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee 6 points 3 weeks ago

This is the kind of conversations we need to be having around all the social and political issues. - the comments in here are nice to see.

solarpunk memes